Don John of Austria Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote]If the government is not governing by the will of the people and the government does more harm then good according to the natural law. [/quote] A govenment must govern in accordance with the ordancances of God not the People, the will of the people is meaningless unless it coniciders with the will of God. [quote]Tradition does not speak on this particular case. [/quote] No it speaks on what makes a Government Corrupt and unjust, it is Called useing Church teaching in your intellectual life-- it is really an amazing thing, that some off us who disagree with you can read and reason I know but beleve it or not we can, the Church doen't have to speak on every case of adultery or murder, or theft, the teachings of the Church on those matters allow us to determine when one is being done, likewise the teachings of the Church allow us to determine ifa State is unjust, or is corrupt, and is therefore legitimate.
Guest Aluigi Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 the Crusades were just WWII was just (except the A-bomb part, but what are you goin to do?)
voiciblanche Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:45 PM'] the Crusades were just WWII was just (except the A-bomb part, but what are you goin to do?) [/quote] Hmm. Well, in that case, it would seem that a war on abortion would be a just war. The question (for me, anyway) is if it's neccesary at this point.
Q the Ninja Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='voiciblanche' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:47 PM'] Hmm. Well, in that case, it would seem that a war on abortion would be a just war. The question (for me, anyway) is if it's neccesary at this point. [/quote] It's only just if it's necessary.
Q the Ninja Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:43 PM'] No it speaks on what makes a Government Corrupt and unjust, it is Called useing Church teaching in your intellectual life-- it is really an amazing thing, that some off us who disagree with you can read and reason I know but beleve it or not we can, the Church doen't have to speak on every case of adultery or murder, or theft, the teachings of the Church on those matters allow us to determine when one is being done, likewise the teachings of the Church allow us to determine ifa State is unjust, or is corrupt, and is therefore legitimate. [/quote] Actually, Theoketos is right. There is no Catholic stance on whether our government is just, and we are free to disagree. To claim that there is a Catholic stance (just like on the Just War) is to pervert Tradition.
Q the Ninja Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote name='voiciblanche' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:42 PM'] Anybody have more than that, and possibly without a "probably"? [/quote] The reason I said probably is that the Church will not declare a war just, my point is that a Catholic can see probably every war as either just or unjust, and there's no reason that they are dissenting from the Magisterium.
voiciblanche Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 [quote]There is no Catholic stance on whether our government is just, and we are free to disagree. To claim that there is a Catholic stance (just like on the Just War) is to pervert Tradition. [/quote] That's good news to me.
Q the Ninja Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 Yep. However, it means that less people will support the war (I sure wouldn't), which lowers the chances of success. Isn't that part of the Just War Doctrine, must have high chance of success?
Phatmasser777 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Jan 1 2005, 01:45 PM'] the Crusades were just WWII was just (except the A-bomb part, but what are you goin to do?) [/quote] Japan was a testing ground for the A-Bomb there was absolutely no need to use it. If America lost the war, they would have been brought up on war crimes.
cathqat Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 I think everyone here would agree that the use of the A-bomb was immoral.
crusader1234 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Well, the Atomic Bomb wouldn't prove very practical in the war against abortion in any case now would it?
Q the Ninja Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Probably not, but it came up earlier in what wars have been just so far.
cathqat Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='Q the Ninja' date='Jan 2 2005, 04:16 AM'] Probably not, but it came up earlier in what wars have been just so far. [/quote] WWII may have been just (not all Catholics agreed on that, even), but the use of the A-bomb in Japan was not. It was immoral. Crusader1234-- the A-bomb might put an end to abortion, but it would definitely not be an improvement!
cathqat Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jan 2 2005, 05:09 AM'] I'm not so sure people got my joke [/quote] Why not?
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