hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body."
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 we are discussing the correction of a genital deformity.
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 exactly, so what would be the purpose of having surgically altered genitalia with no reproductive use or significance? If you are a male with female inclinations, you can certainly act feminine without a physical change.
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:01 AM'] Well, then it is the same to say that homosexuals may act upon their desires because it could have been God's intent. God could have planned for them to suffer for their sexual preference, and be brought closer to Him through it. How are we to say that they don't have ambiguous brains as well? Errrm, I don't think so. [/quote] Well there's a huge difference. First of all, this isn't about sexuality, it is about gender. This isn't about who I want to have carnal relations with, it is about who I am as a person. This alone separates it from homosexuality. Of course, we can go further and look at the Church teaching. The Church says that it is wrong to engage in homosexual relations. The Church does NOT say what I'm doing is wrong. In fact, the only document we have says otherwise. I follow the restrictions it places upon me but I don't invent new ways to torture myself. Finally, men and women can achieve celibacy - it happens. What doesn't happen is people living the wrong gender their whole lives and not screwing themselves up. The youth trans suicide rate is over 50%. I am more likely than not to kill myself. To put this in perspective, the US teen suicide rate is 1%. The Gay or Bisexual suicide rate is 2%. You really need to think before you ask people to do ridiculous things. But then again, I'm sure you'd be fine with a penis.
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 tink i don't think you get it. that's ok though.
Socrates Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 Okay, I think I've found the section under question. It says the procedure is allowable only under certain "extreme" conditions, an only when it is clearly necessary to cure the mental distress (probably to avoid greater evil such as danger of suicide.) It then warns that surgery usually makes the mental condtion worse. The article also says: "The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains female," said the source. See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh. Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. Spar., it seems you have a genuine physical condition, and I'm honestly not an expert on such things. Since you've said you have no sex drive, issues of chastity should not be a problem. Just serve the Lord the best you can and do not feel bad about being single or not being a religious. I am single, and am not a priest or religious. Worrying about such things will only create unnecesarry trouble for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with condition, and i wish you the best. I can probably seem like a mean old SOB at times, but I really want the best for you. I think you are a good-hearted person. God bless, Greg
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:08 AM'] Well there's a huge difference. First of all, this isn't about sexuality, it is about gender. This isn't about who I want to have carnal relations with, it is about who I am as a person. This alone separates it from homosexuality. Of course, we can go further and look at the Church teaching. The Church says that it is wrong to engage in homosexual relations. The Church does NOT say what I'm doing is wrong. In fact, the only document we have says otherwise. I follow the restrictions it places upon me but I don't invent new ways to torture myself. Finally, men and women can achieve celibacy - it happens. What doesn't happen is people living the wrong gender their whole lives and not screwing themselves up. The youth trans suicide rate is over 50%. I am more likely than not to kill myself. To put this in perspective, the US teen suicide rate is 1%. The Gay or Bisexual suicide rate is 2%. You really need to think before you ask people to do ridiculous things. But then again, I'm sure you'd be fine with a penis. [/quote] wow, you've totally lost me. Perhaps you misunderstood, I'm saying that in your position the wisest thing I would do would be to take a vow of celibacy, and, if that is altogether too painful, offer it up and unite it with Christ's suffering on the cross.
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:08 AM'] Okay, I think I've found the section under question. It says the procedure is allowable only under certain "extreme" conditions, an only when it is clearly necessary to cure the mental distress (probably to avoid greater evil such as danger of suicide.) It then warns that surgery usually makes the mental condtion worse. The article also says: "The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains female," said the source. See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh. Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. Spar., it seems you have a genuine physical condition, and I'm honestly not an expert on such things. Since you've said you have no sex drive, issues of chastity should not be a problem. Just serve the Lord the best you can and do not feel bad about being single or not being a religious. I am single, and am not a priest or religious. Worrying about such things will only create unnecesarry trouble for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with condition, and i wish you the best. I can probably seem like a mean old SOB at times, but I really want the best for you. I think you are a good-hearted person. God bless, Greg [/quote] Thanks Socrates. I'm not asking people to like it - I don't like it that's for sure. But I'm asking people to accept the fact that I don't have a choice in the matter either.
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:08 AM'] tink i don't think you get it. that's ok though. [/quote] Well, originally I did, but now I'm completely lost. Sorry.
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:08 AM'] Okay, I think I've found the section under question. It says the procedure is allowable only under certain "extreme" conditions, an only when it is clearly necessary to cure the mental distress (probably to avoid greater evil such as danger of suicide.) It then warns that surgery usually makes the mental condtion worse. The article also says: "The key point is that the (transsexual) surgical operation is so superficial and external that it does not change the personality. If the person was male, he remains male. If she was female, she remains female," said the source. See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh. Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. Spar., it seems you have a genuine physical condition, and I'm honestly not an expert on such things. Since you've said you have no sex drive, issues of chastity should not be a problem. Just serve the Lord the best you can and do not feel bad about being single or not being a religious. I am single, and am not a priest or religious. Worrying about such things will only create unnecesarry trouble for you. I'm sorry you have to deal with condition, and i wish you the best. I can probably seem like a mean old SOB at times, but I really want the best for you. I think you are a good-hearted person. God bless, Greg [/quote] Thank you. THIS is more along the lines of what I've been so poorly attempting to say. I think my meds have really destroyed my articulation tonight.
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='Tink' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:11 AM'] Well, originally I did, but now I'm completely lost. Sorry. [/quote] but I must agree with the majority of Socrates' post in saying that if you are created to be a certain gender, any inclinations to be otherwise need not be acted upon. You can act like a female and be as feminine as you like, but to be compelled to deny the God-given gift of sexuality through the act of sex-reassignment surgery is devaluing your individuality and God's wisdom. Socrates said I'd always be a man dressing like a girl. You said you agree with him. This has nothing to do with sex. I'm celibate but that's not what this is about. This is about me not living as a boy, because living as a boy makes die inside.
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw.
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 Oh and I should make a note here. The surgery creeps me out as much as the boy genitals do. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. On the one hand - gross. On the other hand - gross. What a conundrum
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:15 AM'] Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw. [/quote] Yeah. I didn't have male puberty either. I dunno why, but I never did. My parents never sought to have me go on T for the issue though - thank God.
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 (edited) Re: Grossness. well if that's the case, stay put and spend the money on something useful, like a MacDonald's franchise. lol Edited January 18, 2005 by hyperdulia again
spathariossa Posted January 18, 2005 Author Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:19 AM'] well if that's the case, stay put and spend the money on something useful, like a MacDonald's franchise. lol [/quote] Yeah I know. It is $30,000 or so. But I'm certain I'd feel alot better with it than without. I just know that even without the surgery I won't kill myself as long as I can be myself.
hyperdulia again Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:18 AM'] Yeah. I didn't have male puberty either. I dunno why, but I never did. My parents never sought to have me go on T for the issue though - thank God. [/quote] The changes from testosterone weren't that bad. Facial hair. More muscle. But my underlying structure remained nubile. I'm starting to thnk the T is hy I had a sex-drive. 'Cause now. I kinda don't ever think about it. lol
Tink Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote]Socrates said I'd always be a man dressing like a girl. You said you agree with him.[/quote] ok. And I'm saying that if all this is as you say it is, you don't need a penis to make you a male, or a vagina to make you a female. [quote]See, here is the problem. The surgery does not give one actual new genitals with reproductive function, but an artificial mutilation of flesh.[/quote] What more is surgically created genitalia than skin? Why would you need a mass of cells to make you feel more comfortable in your femininity or masculinity? Human bodies are nothing, and sexual reassignment surgery does not change your gender, it simply makes one more content in their physical embodiment. I understand that I am completely ignorant in some respects, but I still don't follow the logic.
Socrates Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='hyperdulia again' date='Jan 18 2005, 12:15 AM'] Hyper, the difference is a man's penis (or a woman's vagina) is a gift from God. The surgery is an unnatural destruction of what God gave you. I'm not going to get into this, but I was BORN with Major physical anamalies. I didn't develope "naturally" at puberty. I had to be put on testosterone as teenager to cause the developement of male secondary sex characteristics. I could say other things. And having been off of T for a while now, and without estrogen replacement (which I intend to have), the changes in my physical self have not been at all atypical of the ones teenage girls go threw. [/quote] Sorry, didn't know about your physical problems. I was a little confused. Earlier (on another post) I thought you said you were a gay man. Then somewhere else you siad you had two kids, then I was really confused. I don't know your gender or specific medical condition, and its really none of my business, so I'll shut up. Just please accept my apologies. I'll be sure to keep you in my prayers.
Recommended Posts