My Apologetics Website

[dairygirl4u2c]

was perusing his old threads, cause he said he use to be hard core into all that, interested in what made him tick etc.
just thought it was, interesting.
..and kinda funny...

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1945626' date='Aug 10 2009, 03:25 PM']was perusing his old threads, cause he said he use to be hard core into all that, interested in what made him tick etc.
just thought it was, interesting.
..and kinda funny...[/quote]
I'm flattered, but I'm not sure I even know what makes me tick.

[BG45]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1945628' date='Aug 10 2009, 05:26 PM']I'm flattered, but I'm not sure I even know what makes me tick.[/quote]

I don't think most of us, or maybe even any of us, know what makes us tick. (Ticked off on the other hand, I bet all of us could list. )

[Brother Adam]

Ironic.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1945681' date='Aug 10 2009, 06:58 PM']Ironic.[/quote]
No it isn't.
How could a website on the intertrons be made completely of iron?
Preposterous.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1945743' date='Aug 10 2009, 08:26 PM']No it isn't.
How could a website on the intertrons be made completely of iron?
Preposterous.
[/quote]

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1945628' date='Aug 10 2009, 06:26 PM']I'm flattered, but I'm not sure I even know what makes me tick.[/quote]

So, it begs the question: what happened? This is not meant to be a debate, just a chance to explain yourself, if you so desire.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1945943' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:07 PM']So, it begs the question: what happened? This is not meant to be a debate, just a chance to explain yourself, if you so desire.[/quote]
My downfall was the doubts. I have always been interested in science. Everything would make sense and could be explained somehow. I accepted that belief in God was a matter of faith, and for a while, I was okay with it. But as time went on, the doubts plagued me and I couldn't be happy because my days were consumed with the doubts. Everywhere and everything was a stake in my belief.

To compensate for this, I elected to walk away from it all to give my mind a rest. For me, making an official exit meant I didn't have to ponder the question anymore. I had intentions of revisiting the topic eventually, but I still haven't reached the point at which I want to do so.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1945965' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:30 AM']My downfall was the doubts. I have always been interested in science. Everything would make sense and could be explained somehow. I accepted that belief in God was a matter of faith, and for a while, I was okay with it. But as time went on, the doubts plagued me and I couldn't be happy because my days were consumed with the doubts. Everywhere and everything was a stake in my belief.

To compensate for this, I elected to walk away from it all to give my mind a rest. For me, making an official exit meant I didn't have to ponder the question anymore. I had intentions of revisiting the topic eventually, but I still haven't reached the point at which I want to do so.[/quote]

Speaking as a natural skeptic (believe me, my faith doesn't amount to a single molecule of mustard, let alone a seed, but I want to believe, I choose to believe), I hope that you do revisit the topic. It is so difficult to want to understand so much...skeptics don't have bad intentions, they just want to be secure in their understanding, but I think that pride comes in as an unintended fault and begins to work on a person so that unless they understand everything, unless they have absolute, tangible proof, they are plagued with the temptation to doubt. As Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in "Introduction to Christianity," a person can see the beauty and glory of the faith as a castle, and a person to may see how well-constructed that castle is and have great faith in it, but then ask the existential question: what is the castle standing on? Is there really even a castle? How can I know? How can I be sure? Can I trust my senses? Can I trust my logic and reasoning? Can I trust anything?

I believe, despite the fact that this believe is constantly the subject of scrutiny in my mind and heart, that the self-doubting existentialism of modern philosophy, while technically a valid question ("does it all really exist? Can I know anything aside from cogito ergo sum?"), is a fool's venture. At some point, philosophers and skeptics have to accept that they can't prove everything is real or that the premises upon which they base their conclusions are grounded in reality. At some point, they have to say, "I'm going to trust my reason and my senses with some self-criticism, but only constructive self-criticism, because to question everything will only waste time and never lead me to real answers." What kind of life does doubt produce? Only one of despair and misery. Eventually a person prone to doubt must decide to let it go and have faith or to live as if life has no meaning. Those are the only two paths that lay before the skeptic.

Now, trusting that our rationale is, to the greatest extent of our ability, reasonable, then I think Christianity not only makes the greatest sense of any philosophy or religion, taking into account both a realistic evaluation on all counts of human nature, but also a miraculous and breathtaking view of the infinite, boundless destiny of human potential in God...not only is Christianity the most reasonable, but it is also the most beautiful, appealing to the soul in a greater way than all the masterpieces of the world.

That is why I chose to believe...yes, there is always the question in the back of my mind whether it is all true or not, but I'm not going to waste my time on such a meaningless quest as that. Christianity makes sense with my understanding of the world. That's good enough for me. Does that mean that Christianity is a subjective matter? No, I believe not. I believe that everyone would see the world in essentially the same way, a way in which Christianity makes great sense, if people were honest with themselves and didn't second-guess everything.

In any event, I don't think the right approach to the temptation to doubt is to avoid the sacraments and stop professing the faith. I think to cut ourselves off from the Church is to do great damage to an already damaged mind. I think instead we must throw ourselves to God's mercy and beg for faith and the courage to trust that the minds He gave us are capable of real understanding.

God bless,

Micah

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1945986' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:46 AM']Speaking as a natural skeptic (believe me, my faith doesn't amount to a single molecule of mustard, let alone a seed, but I want to believe, I choose to believe), I hope that you do revisit the topic. It is so difficult to want to understand so much...skeptics don't have bad intentions, they just want to be secure in their understanding, but I think that pride comes in as an unintended fault and begins to work on a person so that unless they understand everything, unless they have absolute, tangible proof, they are plagued with the temptation to doubt. As Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in "Introduction to Christianity," a person can see the beauty and glory of the faith as a castle, and a person to may see how well-constructed that castle is and have great faith in it, but then ask the existential question: what is the castle standing on? Is there really even a castle? How can I know? How can I be sure? Can I trust my senses? Can I trust my logic and reasoning? Can I trust anything?

I believe, despite the fact that this believe is constantly the subject of scrutiny in my mind and heart, that the self-doubting existentialism of modern philosophy, while technically a valid question ("does it all really exist? Can I know anything aside from cogito ergo sum?"), is a fool's venture. At some point, philosophers and skeptics have to accept that they can't prove everything is real or that the premises upon which they base their conclusions are grounded in reality. At some point, they have to say, "I'm going to trust my reason and my senses with some self-criticism, but only constructive self-criticism, because to question everything will only waste time and never lead me to real answers." What kind of life does doubt produce? Only one of despair and misery. Eventually a person prone to doubt must decide to let it go and have faith or to live as if life has no meaning. Those are the only two paths that lay before the skeptic.

Now, trusting that our rationale is, to the greatest extent of our ability, reasonable, then I think Christianity not only makes the greatest sense of any philosophy or religion, taking into account both a realistic evaluation on all counts of human nature, but also a miraculous and breathtaking view of the infinite, boundless destiny of human potential in God...not only is Christianity the most reasonable, but it is also the most beautiful, appealing to the soul in a greater way than all the masterpieces of the world.

That is why I chose to believe...yes, there is always the question in the back of my mind whether it is all true or not, but I'm not going to waste my time on such a meaningless quest as that. Christianity makes sense with my understanding of the world. That's good enough for me. Does that mean that Christianity is a subjective matter? No, I believe not. I believe that everyone would see the world in essentially the same way, a way in which Christianity makes great sense, if people were honest with themselves and didn't second-guess everything.

In any event, I don't think the right approach to the temptation to doubt is to avoid the sacraments and stop professing the faith. I think to cut ourselves off from the Church is to do great damage to an already damaged mind. I think instead we must throw ourselves to God's mercy and beg for faith and the courage to trust that the minds He gave us are capable of real understanding.

God bless,

Micah[/quote]

[Kitty]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1945965' date='Aug 10 2009, 11:30 PM']My downfall was the doubts. I have always been interested in science. Everything would make sense and could be explained somehow. I accepted that belief in God was a matter of faith, and for a while, I was okay with it. But as time went on, the doubts plagued me and I couldn't be happy because my days were consumed with the doubts. Everywhere and everything was a stake in my belief.

To compensate for this, I elected to walk away from it all to give my mind a rest. For me, making an official exit meant I didn't have to ponder the question anymore. I had intentions of revisiting the topic eventually, but I still haven't reached the point at which I want to do so.[/quote]

This is almost exactly how I feel as well. I've also noticed, since I have not been attending church for several months now, and really have not been dwelling on religion, that my depression has gotten considerably better, compared to last year.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1945986' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:46 AM']a person can see the beauty and glory of the faith as a castle, and a person to may see how well-constructed that castle is and have great faith in it, but then ask the existential question: what is the castle standing on? Is there really even a castle? How can I know?[/quote]

What's a castle?

[Winchester]

[img]http://piggington.com/files/images/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg[/img]

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1945986' date='Aug 10 2009, 11:46 PM']Speaking as a natural skeptic (believe me, my faith doesn't amount to a single molecule of mustard, let alone a seed, but I want to believe, I choose to believe), I hope that you do revisit the topic. It is so difficult to want to understand so much...skeptics don't have bad intentions, they just want to be secure in their understanding, but I think that pride comes in as an unintended fault and begins to work on a person so that unless they understand everything, unless they have absolute, tangible proof, they are plagued with the temptation to doubt. As Cardinal Ratzinger pointed out in "Introduction to Christianity," a person can see the beauty and glory of the faith as a castle, and a person to may see how well-constructed that castle is and have great faith in it, but then ask the existential question: what is the castle standing on? Is there really even a castle? How can I know? How can I be sure? Can I trust my senses? Can I trust my logic and reasoning? Can I trust anything?

I believe, despite the fact that this believe is constantly the subject of scrutiny in my mind and heart, that the self-doubting existentialism of modern philosophy, while technically a valid question ("does it all really exist? Can I know anything aside from cogito ergo sum?"), is a fool's venture. At some point, philosophers and skeptics have to accept that they can't prove everything is real or that the premises upon which they base their conclusions are grounded in reality. At some point, they have to say, "I'm going to trust my reason and my senses with some self-criticism, but only constructive self-criticism, because to question everything will only waste time and never lead me to real answers." What kind of life does doubt produce? Only one of despair and misery. Eventually a person prone to doubt must decide to let it go and have faith or to live as if life has no meaning. Those are the only two paths that lay before the skeptic.

Now, trusting that our rationale is, to the greatest extent of our ability, reasonable, then I think Christianity not only makes the greatest sense of any philosophy or religion, taking into account both a realistic evaluation on all counts of human nature, but also a miraculous and breathtaking view of the infinite, boundless destiny of human potential in God...not only is Christianity the most reasonable, but it is also the most beautiful, appealing to the soul in a greater way than all the masterpieces of the world.

That is why I chose to believe...yes, there is always the question in the back of my mind whether it is all true or not, but I'm not going to waste my time on such a meaningless quest as that. Christianity makes sense with my understanding of the world. That's good enough for me. Does that mean that Christianity is a subjective matter? No, I believe not. I believe that everyone would see the world in essentially the same way, a way in which Christianity makes great sense, if people were honest with themselves and didn't second-guess everything.

In any event, I don't think the right approach to the temptation to doubt is to avoid the sacraments and stop professing the faith. I think to cut ourselves off from the Church is to do great damage to an already damaged mind. I think instead we must throw ourselves to God's mercy and beg for faith and the courage to trust that the minds He gave us are capable of real understanding.

God bless,

Micah[/quote]
Thank you for the very thoughtful response.

[quote name='Kitty' post='1945999' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:18 AM']This is almost exactly how I feel as well. I've also noticed, since I have not been attending church for several months now, and really have not been dwelling on religion, that my depression has gotten considerably better, compared to last year.[/quote]
Yeah, I neglected to mention that part. I also go through cycles of depression, which doesn't make anything easier.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1945965' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:30 AM']My downfall was the doubts. I have always been interested in science. Everything would make sense and could be explained somehow. I accepted that belief in God was a matter of faith, and for a while, I was okay with it. But as time went on, the doubts plagued me and I couldn't be happy because my days were consumed with the doubts. Everywhere and everything was a stake in my belief.

To compensate for this, I elected to walk away from it all to give my mind a rest. For me, making an official exit meant I didn't have to ponder the question anymore. I had intentions of revisiting the topic eventually, but I still haven't reached the point at which I want to do so.[/quote]

As someone who goes through that same skepticism every day without fail, I've got to know: are you [i]happy?[/i]

Sometimes, I find myself so overwhelmed by doubts and the (negative) consequences my faith has had on interpersonal relationships in my life, that I get smothered and feel the need to walk away for a season, and clear my mind.

I haven't, though. Deep down, I know myself, and I know I'd feel completely empty if not for my faith. Sure, I'd get some things back perhaps, but I'd lose my reason to have hope. And that smells of elderberries, too. Sometimes, it feels like a lose-lose. I'd rather stay; at least I know I have tools to stay afloat here.

Take your time approaching it again...one of the nice things about God is that He's so patient while we work things out. I hope you don't mind if I pray for you--maybe it'll help me, too.