Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 You are literally all over the place, which is it? brother Littleles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sorry Jamie, Somehow I'm having difficulty with even your claim that Mark 3:13 is using the word adelphos to mean "cousin." The New American Bible renders Mark 3:31 as "His mother and his brothers arrived." Where are you getting the translation "cousins" from? [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark3.htm"]http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark3.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Littleles You asked for a greek scripture passage using the word adelphos. I quoted it from a Greek bible. Whaddya want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi Jamie, I think what I asked you to produce was the use of the word "adelphos" in a Greek New Testament, in which "aldelphos" meant "cousin." LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Please reread my greek post. I'd rather this did not get circular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 hot stuff, stick and move.....stick and move Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 (edited) Hi God Conquers, You asked "Will it ever be prevailed against." It was. The original Christian community in Jerusalem headed by James, the brother of Jesus, formed following Christ's Ascension , was destroyed by the early second century. See the death of James and the Roman conquests of 70 A.D. and 130 A.D. What then is labeled Christianity continued as the Pauline Christian communities and the Gnostic Christian communities. Their belief systems were somewhat different than the Jerusalem communty's and different from each other. The Gnostic communites were labeled as heretical about the 4th century, as I recall. LittleLes But I need to return to my review of the Christian "evidences." Edited April 5, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Littleles I take it from your diversionary tactic that you are ready to admit error on the whole adelphos thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 [quote]et misimus Timotheum [b]fratrem[/b] nostrum et ministrum Dei in evangelio Christi ad confirmandos vos et exhortandos pro fide vestra (1 Thessalonians 3:2)[/quote] [quote]ĪŗĪ±Ī¹ ĪµĻĪµĪ¼ĻĪ±Ī¼ĪµĪ½ ĻĪ¹Ī¼ĪæĪøĪµĪæĪ½ ĻĪæĪ½ [b]Ī±Ī“ĪµĪ»ĻĪæĪ½[/b] Ī·Ī¼ĻĪ½ ĪŗĪ±Ī¹ ĻĻ Ī½ĪµĻĪ³ĪæĪ½ ĻĪæĻ ĪøĪµĪæĻ ĪµĪ½ ĻĻ ĪµĻ Ī±Ī³Ī³ĪµĪ»Ī¹Ļ ĻĪæĻ ĻĻĪ¹ĻĻĪæĻ ĪµĪ¹Ļ ĻĪæ ĻĻĪ·ĻĪ¹Ī¾Ī±Ī¹ Ļ Ī¼Ī±Ļ ĪŗĪ±Ī¹ ĻĪ±ĻĪ±ĪŗĪ±Ī»ĪµĻĪ±Ī¹ Ļ ĻĪµĻ ĻĪ·Ļ ĻĪ¹ĻĻĪµĻĻ Ļ Ī¼ĻĪ½Ā (1 Thessalonians 3:2)[/quote] fratrem and adelphos....brother and brother NOT used in the sense of blood brother, but rather in a fraternal sense. You lose. Time to move on to another topic frater, oops, I mean adelphos, oops, I mean brother Littleles. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi hot stuff, Please evidence my "diversionary tactics" used in the "adelphos thing." I've proven my point, and you have been unable to provide a passage from the Greek New Testament in which the word "adelphos" was used meaning cousin. It appears that you are now using the ploy of claiming you proved something when very clearly the exact opposite is the case. But that ploy is common with apologists who can present no evidence to support their assertions. LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sorry CAM, In 1 Thes 3:2, Paul is referring to Timorty (affectionately) as a "brother" not cousin. I believe my challenge in several places was to produce an instance from the Greek New Testament in which adelphos was translated as "cousin." LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 5 2005, 08:10 AM']I have been waiting for weeks for that to come up [u]brother[/u] Littleles. You are wrong again [u]brother[/u] Littleles.Ā I would like to see where you come up with that argument brother Littleles. Have you ever wondered why I have been calling you [u]BROTHER[/u] Littleles for the last month?Ā It is precisely to show that you have no legs to stand on [u]brother[/u] Littleles. This is in direct relation to Genesis 14:16, 29:15. Yes, the old argument of [i]adelphos[/i].Ā Do you know the problem with Greek?Ā The problem with Greek is translation.Ā You can find as many scholars to support our position as support yours.Ā Hardly definitive. However, when we look at a static (not dead) language like Latin, we see that there can be no argument as to meaning. It is clear that in the times in which these books were written; the word brother is used to mean more than blood brother.Ā There is nothing that proves your point.Ā Brother has many connotations, wouldn't you agree [u]brother[/u] Littleles? Cam[/quote] Well???? I've given the Latin and the Greek in an above post to support the Latin. Wanna try me brother Littleles? You lost, let it go. New topic. Or better yet, how about we get back to the topic and have you answer the several questions posed to you. Cam N.B. Where did I give the argument that it meant cousin. That is between you and hot stuff. I am talking about the dual meaning of brother. Brother Littleles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Apr 5 2005, 07:26 AM'] Hi Ayed, I'm afraid you are getting off topicĀ with your question. But, yes. The Gospels, Epistles, and even the writings of Josephus, the contemporary Jewish historian, all written in Greek which has a specific word for biological brother, claim that Jesus had brothers. But St. Jerome changed these "brothers" into 'cousins" for doctrinal reasons. LittleLes [/quote] The cousin idea is your assumption....I am telling you that your exegesis may be incorrect. I have shown you that brother doesn't necessarily mean blood brother. We can't know, simply by the word adelphos what Mark means. And incidentally, how can you know this, you admittedly don't speak Greek. Are you relying on someone's traditional teaching to prove this for you? And whose would that be traditional teaching would that be? Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLes Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 (edited) Hi CAM, Are you then claiming that everytime the writers of the gospels, the epistles , and Josephus term Jesus' brothers as "adolphos" they really meant NOT his brothers? And does this apply to his sisters as well? I sometimes call a young man "son," but when I refer to my own sons as son, does this mean that they are NOT my sons? Isn't your and Jerome's claim a bit absurd? Its a shame what apologists and Jerome have to try to maintain for doctrinal reasons. I couldn't keep a straight face trying to convince people that Jesus' brothers always means NOT his brothers. LittleLes Edited April 5, 2005 by LittleLes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Apr 5 2005, 11:19 AM'] Hi CAM, Are you then claiming that everytime the writers of the gospels, the epistles , and Josephus term Jesus' brothers as "adolphos" they really meant NOT his brothers? And does this apply to his sisters as well? I sometimes call a young man "son," but when I refer to my own sons as son, does this mean that they are NOT my sons? Isn't your and Jerome's claim a bit absurd? Its a shame what apologists and Jerome have to try to maintain for doctrinal reasons. I couldn't keep a straight face trying to convince people that Jesus' brothers always means NOT his brothers. LittleLes [/quote] And my point is proven. Have a nice day brother Littleles. Have you not noticed that I have been calling you my brother for the last month or so? Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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