Confusing....

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 10 2005, 03:32 PM'] Do you even know what I said? I made an analogy that teenage sex is illegal. Which it is. Have you ever heard of statutory rape? That is why I said, both are illegal. [/quote]
*snerk*

You need to take a look at statutory rape laws sometime. Sex between teens is not necessarily statutory rape nor is it necessarily illegal. Depending on the state one must simply be over the age of consent (as low as 14 in some states) or within a certain number of years of each other, but both under 18. Statutory rape usually only applies when one of the people is over the age of consent and the other is not.

[Cam42]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Apr 12 2005, 12:18 PM'] *snerk*

You need to take a look at statutory rape laws sometime. Sex between teens is not necessarily statutory rape nor is it necessarily illegal. Depending on the state one must simply be over the age of consent (as low as 14 in some states) or within a certain number of years of each other, but both under 18. Statutory rape usually only applies when one of the people is over the age of consent and the other is not. [/quote]
So that makes it ok? Nice logic.

Pre-marital sex is wrong, no matter what. And you are defending teenage sex. That's great.

Here are some interesting facts. Statutory rape laws are based on the premise that until a person reaches a certain age, that individual is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse.

[quote]Ala. 16 Capital offense for male >=16 to have intercourse with female <12; lesser offense if victim is aged12-15 and actor is >=16 and two years older than victim.
Alaska 18 First-degree sexual abuse of a minor if victim is <13 and actor is >=16; second degree if victim is aged 13-15 and actor is >=16 and at least three years older than victim. 
Ariz. 18 Felony to knowingly engage in sexual conduct with a minor <15; lesser felony if minor is >=15.
Ark. 18 Rape if actor has intercourse or engages in deviate sexual activity with victim <14. First-degree carnal knowledge if actor <18 engages in sexual activity with victim <14; third degree if actor is >=20 and vic tim is <16.
Calif. 18 Illegal to have intercourse with minor (not a spouse) <18. If actor is not more than three years older than victim, charge is a misdemeanor; harshest penalty for actor >21 when victim is <16.
Colo. 18 Second-degree sexual assault if victim is <15 and actor is at least four years older; third degree if perpetrator is >=18 and victim is <18.
Conn. 16 First-degree sexual assault if actor has intercourse with victim <13 and actor is more than two years older than victim; second degree if victim is aged 13-15 and actor is more than two years older than victim. 
Del. 16 Second-degree unlawful sexual contact if victim is <16. First-degree unlawful intercourse if victim <16 suffers serious physical injury or actor used deadly weapon; second degree if intercourse causes physical injury; third degree if intercourse occurs. 
D.C. 16 First-degree child sexual abuse if actor engages in sexual act with victim <16 who is at least four years younger than actor; second degree if actor has sexual contact with such victim. 
Fla. 18 Capital felony if actor >=18 commits sexual battery or causes injury while attempting to commit sexual battery against person <12; life felony if actor is <18; first-degree sexual battery if victim is aged 12 3;17. Third-degree child abuse if person >=21 impregnates a child <16. Unlawful sexual activity if person >=24 has intercourse with victim aged 16-17. 
Ga. 16Ý Statutory rape to have intercourse with someone <16. Misdemeanor if victim is aged 14-15 and actor ¾ three years older. Hawaii 14 First-degree sexual assault if actor knowingly has sex with victim <14; third degree if sexual contact is with victim <14.
Idaho 18 Rape is intercourse with victim <18.
Ill. 18 Predatory criminal sexual assault if actor >=17 has intercourse with victim <13. Aggravated criminal sexual assault if actor is <17 and victim is <9 or aged 9-12 and actor uses force. Aggravated criminal sexual abuse is sexual conduct with victim aged 13-16 and actor at least five years older. Criminal sexual abuse if actor is <17 and victim is aged 9-16. 
Ind.  16 Child molestation if actor has intercourse or engages in deviate sexual conduct with child <14. 
Iowa 16 Second-degree sexual abuse if victim is <12; third degree if victim is aged 12-13 or 14-15 and actor >=five years older. 
Kans. 16 Rape is intercourse with person <14. 
Ky. 16 First-degree sexual abuse if actor has sexual contact with victim <12; second degree if victim is <14. 
La. 17 Aggravated rape if actor has intercourse with victim <12. Carnal knowledge of juvenile if actor >17 has intercourse with consent of victim aged 12-16 and is more than two years older.
Maine 16 Gross sexual assault if actor engages in sexual act with victim <14. Sexual abuse of minor if victim is aged 14-15 and actor is >=19 and five years older than victim.
Md. 16 Second-degree sexual offense if actor engages in sexual act with victim ¾14 and actor is at least four years older; third degree if actor is >=21 and victim is aged 14-15; fourth degree if actor is four or mor e years older than minor aged 14-15. 
Mass. 16 Unlawful sexual intercourse if victim is <16.
Mich. 16 First-degree criminal sexual conduct to have intercourse with victim <13; third degree if victim is <16.
Minn. 16 First-degree criminal sexual conduct to have intercourse with victim <13 if actor is more than 36 months older; third degree if victim is aged 13-15 and actor is more than 24 months older.
Miss. 18 Illegal for actor >=18 to have carnal knowledge of child <14; possible sentence includes death or life imprisonment (lesser sentence for actors aged 13-17). Carnal knowledge of unmarried person aged 14-1 7 of previously chaste character is illegal if actor is older than victim.
Mo. 17 First-degree statutory rape if actor has intercourse with person <14; second degree if actor is >=21and victim is <17.
Mont. 16 Sexual assault if victim is <16 and actor is three or more years older. 
Nebr. 16 First-degree sexual assault if actor >=19 has intercourse with person <16. Sexual assault of child if actor >=19 engages in sexual contact with victim ¾14.
Nev. 16 Statutory sexual seduction if actor >=18 has intercourse with person <16; felony if actor >21.
N.H. 16 Aggravated felonious assault if actor has intercourse with victim <13. Felonious assault if actor has sexual contact with victim <13 or intercourse with victim aged 13-15.
N.J. 16 First-degree sexual assault if actor has intercourse with victim <13; second degree if sexual contact with victim <13 and actor is four or more years older or intercourse with victim aged 13-15 and actor is fou r or more years older.
N.M. 17 First-degree criminal sexual penetration to have intercourse with child <13; third-degree criminal sexual contact if child is <13 or aged 13-16 and actor inflicts injury or uses a deadly weapon.
N.Y. 17 First-degree felony to have intercourse with person <11; second degree if actor is >=18 and victim is <14; third degree if actor is >=21 and victim is <17.
N.C. 16 First-degree rape if actor at least aged 12 and four years older than victim has intercourse with child <13. 
N.Dak. 18 Gross sexual imposition if actor engages in sexual act with person <15; misdemeanor if adult engages in sexual act with person aged 15-17.
Ohio 18 First-degree rape if actor engages in sexual conduct with person <13. Corruption of a minor if actor is >=18 and victim is aged 13-15; if actor is less than four years older than victim, the crime is reduced fr om a felony to a misdemeanor.
Okla. 18 First-degree rape if actor >18 has intercourse with victim <14; second degree if actor (no age stipulated) has intercourse with victim <16.
Ore. 18 First-degree rape if actor has intercourse with victim <12; second degree if victim is <14; third degree if victim is <16.
Penn. 16 Rape if victim is <13. Statutory sexual assault if victim is <16 and actor is at least four years older than victim.
R.I. 16 Third-degree sexual assault if actor >=19 has intercourse with person aged 15. First-degree child molestation sexual assault if actor has intercourse with victim ¾14; second degree if sexual contact occurs with person ¾14.
S.C. 15 First-degree criminal sexual conduct if victim is <11; second degree if victim is aged 11-14.
S.Dak. 16 Rape if victim is <10, or aged 10-15 and perpetrator is at least three years older than victim. Felony for person >=16 to knowingly engage in sexual contact with person <16; if actor is less than three ye ars older than the victim, the crime is reduced to a misdemeanor.
Tenn. 18 Rape of child if victim is <13. Statutory rape if victim is aged 13-17 and actor is at least four years older than victim.
Tex. 17 Aggravated sexual assault if actor has intercourse with victim <14. Sexual assault if actor intentionally or knowingly penetrates victim <17.
Utah 17 Rape if victim is <14, or if victim is aged 14-16 and actor is more than three years older and "coerces victim to submit."
Vt. 16 Aggravated sexual assault if actor >=18 engages in sexual act with victim <10. Sexual assault if actor engages in sexual act with a person <16.
Va. 16 Rape is intercourse with child <13. Felony to have carnal knowledge of child aged 13-15, but if victim consents and is less than three years younger than the minor who is accused, then crime is a misdemeanor.
Wash. 16 First-degree rape if victim is <12 and defendant is at least 24 months older than victim; second degree if victim is aged 12-13 and defendant is at least 36 months older; third degree if victim is aged 14-15 and defendant is at least 48 months older.
W.Va. 16 First-degree sexual assault if actor >=14 engages in sexual "intrusion" with victim ¾11; third degree if victim is <16 and actor is at least four years older.
Wis. 18 First-degree sexual assault if actor engages in sexual contact or intercourse with person <13; second degree if victim is <16.
Wyo. 16 Second-degree sexual assault if victim is <12 and actor is at least four years older; third degree if victim is <16 and actor is at least four years older.
*Does not include statutory provisions that relate to cases of incest, or those in which the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the victim or lives in the same household as the victim. †The age of consent in Georgia was 14 in June 1996; it was raised to 16 in October 1996. (M. Oberman, "Gender Issues and the Criminal Law: Turning Girls Into Women: Reevaluating Modern Statutory Rape Law," Northwestern School of Law Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 85:15-87; 1996, op. cit.)[/quote]

Regardless of age, rape is rape and last time I checked most of these are dealing with minors. And incidentally, most of the statutes do not refer specifically to statutory rape; instead, they use designat ions such as sexual abuse, sexual assault, unlawful sexual conduct or carnal knowledge to identify prohibited activity. Most states have classifications and degrees of criminal behavior based on the age of the victim and the age difference between the victim and the "perpetrator."

At any rate, it is immoral. And as it is being shown in most places, illegal. Perhaps now we can see that this is a moral discussion as well as a legal one.

Cam

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 12 2005, 01:28 PM'] So that makes it ok? Nice logic.

Pre-marital sex is wrong, no matter what. And you are defending teenage sex. That's great. [/quote]
*clears throat* I did not make any such argument and you know it. Nice strawman.

[quote]Here are some interesting facts. Statutory rape laws are based on the premise that until a person reaches a certain age, that individual is legally incapable of consenting to sexual intercourse.[/quote]

And? Take a look at the laws you quoted. Notice, for example, that in Alaska, for it to be illegal the person has to be younger than 15 and the other person (if person A is 13 or older) has to be at least three years older to be prosecutable. Thus, a 15 year old and a 16 year old could legally have sex. Thus, your statement that it's illegal is flat wrong.

[quote]Regardless of age, rape is rape and last time I checked most of these are dealing with minors.  [/quote]

Hold the phone, buddy. Statutory rape != rape. I have no idea why that chose that particular moniker, but this is one of my sticking points on this issue. Statutory rape only applies when the sex was consensual (read: sex that would have been consensual if both parties were of age) -- any time it is non-consensual it is just rape. You need to have this terminology correct before you can have this discussion.

For example:
The following happens in MO:
A 15 year old girl is raped by a 15 year old boy -- she can press charges for rape.
A 15 year old girl has sex with a 15 year old boy -- no one can press charges for anything. Despite both being under the age of consent, the age differential wasn't enough for statutory rape charges to be pressed. If either party were 21, then charges could be pressed, even if the situation were the same as when they were both 15.

Do you see the difference?

[quote]And incidentally, most of the statutes do not refer specifically to statutory rape; instead, they use designat ions such as sexual abuse, sexual assault, unlawful sexual conduct or carnal knowledge to identify prohibited activity. Most states have classifications and degrees of criminal behavior based on the age of the victim and the age difference between the victim and the "perpetrator."[/quote]

All of which fall under the blanket term 'statutory rape'. It may be a misnomer, but it is the term we currently use and it must be used correctly.

[quote]At any rate, it is immoral.  And as it is being shown in most places, illegal.  Perhaps now we can see that this is a moral discussion as well as a legal one.[/quote]

Which is beside the point, because you were using this to illustrate your false analogy above and basing your statement that 'sex between teens is illegal' on it. My whole point is that teenpregnancy.org is not dealing with a moral issue, but the epidemic of teen pregnancy. I.e. that they don't care what your moral stance is on the issue, they are just presenting facts on how to prevent teen pregnancy.

[Cam42]

[quote]My whole point is that teenpregnancy.org is not dealing with a moral issue, but the epidemic of teen pregnancy. I.e. that they don't care what your moral stance is on the issue, they are just presenting facts on how to prevent teen pregnancy.[/quote]

It is a moral stance. Because advocating sex outside of marriage is "flat wrong." So, is advocating contraception.

Cam