Gregorian Chant

[Oik]

I love to read every one's thoughts on this and I love reading what the Church teaches. I love seeing people involved at Mass.

There is so much common ground.

The rubrics are so very important. When is comes to guitars, as long as they are used according to the rubrics, it is a great gift being offered.

There has to be a rethinking about the Music at Mass in many ways. I think that that is already has been start.

The why is important, just like GS said. Do we know those things?

Can I get a little Catchesis and training on the Liturgy in the house?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Apr 17 2005, 03:08 PM'] That is clear. I don't see what this debate is all about, then. I think Adam would agree with that paragraph quite well. [/quote]
I wasn't debating Bro. Adam! He asked where it said that Gregorian Chant was necessary, such that I thought he didn't like it/thought it should be secondary, so I asked why.. and wasn't understanding how he thought it was "unnecessary". My posts were not a debate, or an attack... just seeking to understand.



Geez.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Apr 17 2005, 04:13 PM'] I wasn't debating Bro. Adam! He asked where it said that Gregorian Chant was necessary, such that I thought he didn't like it/thought it should be secondary, so I asked why.. and wasn't understanding how he thought it was "unnecessary". My posts were not a debate, or an attack... just seeking to understand.



Geez. [/quote]
I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I sensed a bit of "talking down" to Adam and to me. I must have been wrong. Forgive me. -_-

[Oik]

Fides, I liked your posts and everyone elses. There was a lot brought to the table here and for once, I think this thread about Gregorian Chant didn't strain the particpants too much!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Oik' date='Apr 17 2005, 04:20 PM'] Fides, I liked your posts and everyone elses. There was a lot brought to the table here and for once, I think this thread about Gregorian Chant didn't strain the particpants too much! [/quote]
Yeah...too little strain...we need to do something about that...

[Brother Adam]

"Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful. Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord's Prayer, set to the simpler melodies."

Looks good to me. I'd like to see more Latin in the mass, provided there will be competant instruction for those of us who don't know a thing about Latin, so we can participate without feeling ashamed.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 17 2005, 04:25 PM'] Looks good to me. I'd like to see more Latin in the mass, provided there will be competant instruction for those of us who don't know a thing about Latin, so we can participate without feeling ashamed. [/quote]
That's pretty much where I stand. Most hymnals have sections dedicated to the Mass parts in Latin at least. The St. Michael's Hymnal and the St. Gregory's Hymnal are my two favorites...lots of Latin.

It's something that our generation can work on. I'm proud to say that there's plenty of it at my church, which says a lot, since the church itself is ugly (we inherited it from two bishops ago...the cathedral's worse...the cathedra looks like a captain's chair on a cheesey sci-fi flick).

[Guest GumbySmile]

A little bit of strain is a good thing.

This topic is particulary interesting to me because of the Gregorian Chant class I took last semester.

Gregorian Chant is non-metical, it has a sort of free form to it. You can't tap your foot to it because it doesn't have that sort of rhythm. It's use, because of the fact that is not common, helps to seperate the sacred space from the profane. It speaks the Eucharistic sacrifice in a way that we don't quite understand, just like God. It reaches to high-notes that hint at the divine and His unreachable divinity. When in the mass we "sing with choirs of angels" we are singing in an angelic tone. God is mighty and beautiful and sometimes, just sometimes, the music in masses of modern day point towards a secularized God.
The lord is Love.

What do you think?

Edited April 17, 2005 by GumbySmile

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='GumbySmile' date='Apr 17 2005, 04:36 PM'] Gregorian Chant is non-metical, it has a sort of free form to it. You can't tap your foot to it because it doesn't have that sort of rhythm.
[/quote]
Well, there are sets of two's and three's, correct?

There is at least in the Ave Maria chant, with the dropnotes.

[quote]God is mighty and beautiful and sometimes, just sometimes, the music in masses of modern day point towards a secular God.  [/quote]

Sometimes, yes.

[Guest GumbySmile]

Sure you can count it, but you can't really bob your head to it. That was done by design. Specificaly intended to be unbobable.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 17 2005, 02:09 PM'] Wow, that's pretty charitable, and so is Dust for actually letting you have Church Scholar next to your name. Is it safe to bet that you think Novus Ordo masses are invalid too?

[/quote]
Acutally, I am a great defender of the Novus Ordo Missae....and as far as charity goes, I apologize, but you have not exactly been charitable to me on other threads now have you....so, let's call a truce.

Incidentally, one of my loves is the Liturgy. I have a great love of the the Liturgy pre and post. If you wanna start splitting hairs....there is much wrong with the Novus Ordo as it is today, but then again there is much wrong with the Tridentine when it is not celebrated properly.

I am for the proper celebration of the Mass as the Missa Normativa. I had two emaphases in my undergraduate eduaction, Early Church Fathers and the Liturgy. They go hand in hand.

So, ease off....I am not after you per se, but I am after authentic celebration of the Liturgy and life of the Church.

Cam

[a girl called Ezra]

It makes me sad when faith devides people instead of unifying them (hope you understand me, my mothertongue is not english). It should not matter how you celebrate en honor God, it's more important that you do!

Begin to make your own religion strong instead of the religion of others, when you have strong beliefs others will follow!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='a girl called Ezra' date='Apr 17 2005, 07:58 PM'] It makes me sad when faith devides people instead of unifying them (hope you understand me, my mothertongue is not english). It should not matter how you celebrate en honor God, it's more important that you do!

Begin to make your own religion strong instead of the religion of others, when you have strong beliefs others will follow! [/quote]
Your English is fine.

I would like more elaboration on what you are trying to say. It comes out a little ambiguous.

[a girl called Ezra]

Thanks ;-),

Well i'm new here and i think it is interesting to talk about different aspects of religions. I though that this phorum (interfaith dialoque) was about that, but all i see is al lot of talk about protocol and how thinks should go in during the mass etcetera. I read a lot of offensive and defensive stuff about protocols instead of talking about the big picture.

Maybe i'm in the wrong phorumroom for what i seek.

What does the word ambiguous mean? Sorry don't know that!

:-) thanks for the quick reaction by the way.

Ezra

[Cam42]

[quote name='a girl called Ezra' date='Apr 17 2005, 07:28 PM'] Thanks ;-),

Well i'm new here and i think it is interesting to talk about different aspects of religions. I though that this phorum (interfaith dialoque) was about that, but all i see is al lot of talk about protocol and how thinks should go in during the mass etcetera. I read a lot of offensive and defensive stuff about protocols instead of talking about the big picture.

Maybe i'm in the wrong phorumroom for what i seek.

What does the word ambiguous mean? Sorry don't know that!

:-) thanks for the quick reaction by the way.

Ezra [/quote]
No, you are in the right place....you are just in a specific thread.

Peruse the threads and post to the one's that interest you. You don't need to just go with what is on top.

There are a plethora of views here. Welcome to phatmass....we are glad you are here.

We will do what we can to answer your questions and discuss Catholicism and catholicism with you.

Oh...ambiguous has two meanings:

1. Open to more than one interpretation: an ambiguous reply.
2. Doubtful or uncertain: “The theatrical status of her frequently derided but constantly revived plays remained ambiguous."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Apr 17 2005, 08:44 PM'] No, you are in the right place....you are just in a specific thread.

Peruse the threads and post to the one's that interest you. You don't need to just go with what is on top.

There are a plethora of views here. Welcome to phatmass....we are glad you are here.

We will do what we can to answer your questions and discuss Catholicism and catholicism with you.

Oh...ambiguous has two meanings:

1. Open to more than one interpretation: an ambiguous reply.
2. Doubtful or uncertain: “The theatrical status of her frequently derided but constantly revived plays remained ambiguous." [/quote]
Cam...English isn't her first language and you use words like "peruse" and "plethora"?

Ezra, you will find many opinions here. There will also be a lot of division, because there are many who attack the Catholic Church.

We can be friendly, though. I encourage you to look at the Open Mic phorum. It's a nice place to enjoy yourself without all the debate.

By the way, what is your first language?

[a girl called Ezra]

Feel bit stupid now ;-) ! Well happy to know that you can be friendly with eachother! Did not look that way :-)! I can fill in what sertain words mean by reading the context but somtimes that trick does not work (haha). Well i like interaction that is why i those the room where there is dialogue. So i think i'll stay if you all don't mind ? Thanks for expaning ambiguous. Regarding my reply did you mean option 1 or 2?
My mothertongue is Dutch, but i also speak a little German, English, Spanish and French.

[a girl called Ezra]

What does Luker and PM Super Alien stand for and the flags when someone gives a reply?

[Cam42]

[quote name='a girl called Ezra' date='Apr 17 2005, 08:10 PM'] What does Luker and PM Super Alien stand for and the flags when someone gives a reply? [/quote]
The various names, like lurker and super alien are based upon how much you post here. The more you post, your status will change.

As far as the icons or flags go....mine are based upon the fact that I have formal theological training. It is what I went to college for....and have given my talents to help answer questions here. People can get the scoop from me and others as it were....

As for Raphael....he is just a really holy person. So, he is part of the Church faithful. So he gets a flag. There is an explaination of all of this someplace...on the website.

Sorry about the big words, I was poking a bit of fun...a little hazing as it were....

Cam

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='a girl called Ezra' date='Apr 17 2005, 09:08 PM'] Feel bit stupid now ;-) ! Well happy to know that you can be friendly with eachother! Did not look that way :-)! I can fill in what sertain words mean by reading the context but somtimes that trick does not work (haha). Well i like interaction that is why i those the room where there is dialogue. So i think i'll stay if you all don't mind ? Thanks for expaning ambiguous. Regarding my reply did you mean option 1 or 2?
My mothertongue is Dutch, but i also speak a little German, English, Spanish and French. [/quote]
I meant that it was ambiguous in the first case.

We do debate and we do defend the Church. What happened in this read was mostly a lot of misunderstanding and trying to find a solution to a situation.

We're glad to have you. I'm sorry that I don't speak German or French. I speak a little Spanish, but not nearly enough. If you learn Latin, I'll be happy to speak with you in that language.