Priscilla Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I was stunned a few days ago to learn that the Gay movement is infiltrating nearly every religious denomination including Catholics: [url="http://www.dignityusa.org/"]http://www.dignityusa.org/[/url] I am all for showing mercy to Gays who want to repent and lead celibate lives, but does the Catholic Church generally condemn practicing gay lifestyles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Homosexual lifestyles, like any other sexually sinful lifestyle, are condemned in accordance with the motto: hate the sin, not the sinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Dignity is NOT a catholic organization and misreps the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Catholic organization is Courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 A homosexual infiltration of many seminaries is at the root of the recent priestly scandals. The Church is against the sin of homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conservativecatholic Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:09 PM'] A homosexual infiltration of many seminaries is at the root of the recent priestly scandals. The Church is against the sin of homosexuality. [/quote] Homosexuality isn't even a major factor in the sex abuse scandal. The media has portrayed the scandal as such, but in reality the homosexual label now placed on priests is outright arbitrary and fictitious. Edited April 22, 2005 by conservativecatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 (edited) [quote name='conservativecatholic' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:44 PM'] Homosexuality isn't even a major factor in the sex abuse scandal. The media has portrayed the scandal as such, but in reality the homosexual label now placed on priests is outright arbitrary and fictitious. [/quote] I have been in lengthy debates about this on here in the past. It's the media that wants to deny that homosexuality has anything to do with the "pedophilia" priest scandals. The problem is homosexuals in the seminaries -many of which have become bastions of homosexuality ("pink palaces") The majority of the scandals involved priests molesting teenage boys (a common object of homosexual lust). Most did not involve true pedophilia. Pedophilia involves attraction to pre-pubescent children (usually little girls), not adolescents. The problem is people with homosexual perversions becoming priests, not the the Church's requirements of priestly celibacy (as the media would have you beleive). I am not saying that all or most priests are homosexual, but that most of those involved in these scandals were. Please see [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=32661"]this thread[/url] on the topic. Edited April 22, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:09 PM'] The Church is against the sin of homosexuality. [/quote] The Church is against Homosexual [i]Relations[/i]. Homosexuality is just who someone is attracted to, they can act on it or not. Please be careful how you word this kind of conversation. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 22 2005, 06:09 PM'] A homosexual infiltration of many seminaries is at the root of the recent priestly scandals. The Church is against the sin of homosexuality. [/quote] 1. Thats incorrect. 2. Thats also incorrect. You need to be more careful about how you word things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priscilla Posted April 23, 2005 Author Share Posted April 23, 2005 I think Soctrates might be correct: Gay lobbying organisations like Stonewall are very beligerent and I wouldn't put it past them to plant gay's in various sects to get it accepted: they'll just wax bolder and bolder. All denominations seem to have it (or infiltration of it) - even fundamental ones: Pentecostals [url="http://www.pottershousefellowship.com/spt072201.htm"]http://www.pottershousefellowship.com/spt072201.htm[/url] Jehovah's Witnesses [url="http://jehovahswitness.meetup.com/93/"]http://jehovahswitness.meetup.com/93/[/url] Christadlephians [url="http://www.inherit-the-kingdom.org/"]http://www.inherit-the-kingdom.org/[/url] Mormons [url="http://www.affirmation.org/"]http://www.affirmation.org/[/url] Seventh Day Adventists [url="http://www.sdakinship.org/"]http://www.sdakinship.org/[/url] I thinks it's sick. Another sign of the times? Surely the Lord's return is near? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 23 2005, 08:32 AM'] I think Soctrates might be correct: Gay lobbying organisations like Stonewall are very beligerent and I wouldn't put it past them to plant gay's in various sects to get it accepted: they'll just wax bolder and bolder. All denominations seem to have it (or infiltration of it) - even fundamental ones: [/quote] Catholicism is not a denomination. Luckily, our Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and not by the whims of its members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 the Catechism points out clearly The gay lifestyle of today is wrong being gay isn't. No matter where the debate goes on that, being gay isn't wrong. It isn't necessarily the best thing for you, but it isn't wrong. Acting on gay thoughts is. Everyone is called to reach out to gay people and treat them like what they truly are, a child of God. The actions are still wrong though. More specifically here are the parts CCC 2357-2359 (these are just excerpts) 2357 ~ Tradition has always declared that homosexual [b]acts[/b] are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law and close the sexual act to the gift of life. 2358 ~ The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with compassion, respect, and sensitivity. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition 2359 ~ Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that theach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. actually that is most of it. THere are a few other lines that i did not include for purposes of time because they are not the most important. If you would like the complete thought, you can look it up. That is the just of it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Apr 23 2005, 02:37 PM']the Catechism points out clearly The gay lifestyle of today is wrong being gay isn't. No matter where the debate goes on that, being gay isn't wrong. It isn't necessarily the best thing for you, but it isn't wrong. Acting on gay thoughts is. Everyone is called to reach out to gay people and treat them like what they truly are, a child of God. The actions are still wrong though. More specifically here are the parts CCC 2357-2359 (these are just excerpts) 2357 ~ Tradition has always declared that homosexual [b]acts[/b] are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law and close the sexual act to the gift of life. 2358 ~ The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with compassion, respect, and sensitivity. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition 2359 ~ Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that theach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. actually that is most of it. THere are a few other lines that i did not include for purposes of time because they are not the most important. If you would like the complete thought, you can look it up. That is the just of it though.[/quote] I almost agree with you jezic. The problem with your position is that when you use "excerpts," you have to support the part of the quote you are leaving out. You, unfortunately, didn't do that this time. [quote]Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. (CCC 2357)[/quote] [quote]The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. (CCC 2358)[/quote] [quote]Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. (CCC 2359)[/quote] While you are almost correct, in saying: [quote]The gay lifestyle of today is wrong being gay isn't.[/quote] Actually, if you read the whole of the teaching, being gay is. Why, because what the first part of CCC 2357 states: [quote]Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.....[/quote] That is disordered, as well as the action. How can I say this? Because of what is said after these paragraphs in CCC 2360. [quote]Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament. (CCC 2360)[/quote] Homosexuality is the direct opposite of what CCC 2360 states. And homoexuality is incorrect. It is a dichotomy with sexuality. While we are not to judge the homosexual person, only the act, I agree with you. I also think that we who are heterosexual are called to enter into disinterested friendship with homosexuals, in order to help them attempt Christian perfection. But, you left out the most important part of CCC 2357. And when you didn't support it, you undermined your whole post. Just a thought. If anyone wants to know where I am getting my CCC quotes, because they are slightly different from jezic's, it is [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm"]here[/url]. Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 heres a little insight from Crispy: there's a lot of confusion surrounding the whole homosexuality debate. i have done some considerable digging into it and i have found some enlightenment on it. there is quite a bit of information supporting homosexuality to be caused due to ones upbringing. this has led it to be called same-sex attraction, or same-sex attraction dissorder. given this, it is not who you are, it is just an aspect of you. much like having ADD doesnt make u an ADD-er (???dont know what to call it), there is a difference between same-sex attraction and the lifestyle that is "gay" or "homosexual". it is not necessarily permanant, but can be a very grueling burden to deal with, let alone get rid of. so using these definitions, the Church is condemns people who live as "homosexuals" but does NOT condemn those with same-sex attraction, provided they dont act on it. hope i shed some light (or at least made sense??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Let's be clear Crispy. SSAD is not a recognized disorder by the APA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Apr 23 2005, 01:34 AM'] 1. Thats incorrect. 2. Thats also incorrect. You need to be more careful about how you word things. [/quote] It would be more useful if you would say why you disagree with my statements rather than simply negating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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