Donna Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 (edited) Faithful Heart, Even if we were to pray for souls in hell, it would do them no good. Ditto with Satan. He and the damned have already been judged. This is an irreversible sentence: to spend eternity as one has lived their life. That is the objective means by which we speculate about the fate of any deceased: how did they live their life? A story about a plane going down: The priest aboard said, "Call to mind your sins!" so as to give general absolution. Well, some did invoke the mercy of God w/ all their heart. But others cursed and wailed against God the moment before the end. Please God that we all die a happy and holy death, in the state of grace. And yet there are deathbed conversions and who knows what happens the last second of life? Only God. The moment of our death is the most important in our lives and the Church (Good Mother that she is) does not lie to us, and does not let us forget our inevitable fate of death, and that we must prepare for it. Every Hail Mary pleads for the Mother of God to intercede for us "at the hour of our death." God does not send anyone to hell. People choose to serve under the banner of Him, or not. In John, Chapter one it says of Jesus: "In Him was the light and the light was the life of men [meaning man/woman]... This is the true light, that enlighteneth every man come into the world... [which means all are given sufficient grace to be saved]. "...He came unto His own , but they received Him not..." [so it really is up to each individual where their life and eternity is spent]. Our response should be that of the seers of Fatima, esp. Blessed Jacinta Marto, pre-occupied with the vision of hell Our Lady showed these young children. Our Lady at Fatima said to the three: "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculte Heart." And also: "Pray, pray much and make sacrifices for sinners who have no one to pray for them," [thus the easier to be led to hell]. "Say after every decade of the Rosary: O Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fire of hell; lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need[of Thy mercy]." It is salutary to meditate on the reality of hell (save for the scrupulous) and in order to beg that we persevere in the state of grace. Edited November 11, 2003 by Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 i'm not sure who this is a response to, but we should never presume to know in anyone's subjective case whether or not they have committed a mortal sin, this is a matter for the persons informed and conformed conscience to decide with the aid of a priest, during the sacrament. that being said if you know that something was objectively a mortal sin you should always confess it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 bluerose, how's life... i echo ice princess and add that it is mortal sins she speaks of. we are obliged to confess mortal sins. THO' IT IS HELPFUL AND SALUTARY TO CONFESS VENIAL SINS. please do ask in confession, or out of it, a learned priest for the specific questions you have ['is such-and-such a sin...']. or, write to one, some people have 'spiritual direction' by letter. try to be patient; god knows you're trying to find all this stuff out. [eek, sorry 4 caps]. anyway, in the instance of willfully concealing a mortal sin in the confessional, this a sacrilege, and one is lying to god first and foremost; mocking the holy ghost and etc; no absolution is gained in that instance [all the boxes the boy leaves confession with] but the newest box of sacrilege is bigger than all the others put together. repeat, willfully concealing a mortal sin... and, these are all a means to an end; our lord we can reckon did not die on the cross so that we could grit our teeth through life paranoid and resentful of his commands. the psalms are full of david [reformed adulter/murderer] saying 'i delight in thy commandments', let's pray for the understanding of these virtue's, allow ourselves to be taught by the faith, and the grace to keep them out of love for god as well as that holy fear of the lord which is 'the beginning of wisdom'. whew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 theo, i sure wouldn't say that as a priest, after the fact. what good would that do, unless maybe the wife or children spoke their fears in private to him. one lady did this w/ the cure of ars. but what do i know...the priest is like the watchman, is he not [not just the bishop being the watchman]...if he fail to instruct the flock, and etc; theo, my dad died suddenly as a protestant. i've tried to gain the plenary indulgence for him a number of times... have mass said... pray for him. today i tried to gain the indulgence for my g'pa, never met him, died protestant in the 1930's. so, even w/ the no salvation outside the church, we must hope. even bl. pio nono [pius ix] immediately invoked god's mercy on cavor -that apostate who helped steal the papal states and vexed altar and throne for years- when that man died outside the church. and straightaway pio nono said mass for him, his archenemy, so to speak. god bless you, theo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 bluerose, how's life... i echo ice princess and add that it is mortal sins she speaks of. we are obliged to confess mortal sins. THO' IT IS HELPFUL AND SALUTARY TO CONFESS VENIAL SINS. please do ask in confession, or out of it, a learned priest for the specific questions you have ['is such-and-such a sin...']. or, write to one, some people have 'spiritual direction' by letter. try to be patient; god knows you're trying to find all this stuff out. [eek, sorry 4 caps]. anyway, in the instance of willfully concealing a mortal sin in the confessional, this a sacrilege, and one is lying to god first and foremost; mocking the holy ghost and etc; no absolution is gained in that instance [all the boxes the boy leaves confession with] but the newest box of sacrilege is bigger than all the others put together. repeat, willfully concealing a mortal sin... Thanks for clarifying that for me Donna, I was pretty sure that that was the case! (Guess I should have been more specific.) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 kms! the baby's on my lap, twyeen to eat gwahm cwackaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hugs to you, Donna, and smooches to baby-kins. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Gus Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Just to recap on mortal sin: Originally posted by me somewhere else Yes, the three conditions of mortal sin are: 1) Full knowledge. 2) Full consent. 3) Grave matter. You must be fully aware of the consequences of the sin, and have full intention to commit the sin, and the sin must be of serious matter. Thus, there is no list of "which sins are mortal," as what is a venial sin for one person can be a mortal sin for another, but these rules always apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 If one is addicted to the sin in question, but knows it is wrong, does it reduce the culpability (criterion number 2)??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithful heart Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Thank you, I understand. I wish my prayers could help those souls, but like so many of you said it was their choice. I will continue to pray for those here and in purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 (edited) theo, i sure wouldn't say that as a priest, after the fact. what good would that do, unless maybe the wife or children spoke their fears in private to him. one lady did this w/ the cure of ars. but what do i know...the priest is like the watchman, is he not [not just the bishop being the watchman]...if he fail to instruct the flock, and etc; theo, my dad died suddenly as a protestant. i've tried to gain the plenary indulgence for him a number of times... have mass said... pray for him. today i tried to gain the indulgence for my g'pa, never met him, died protestant in the 1930's. so, even w/ the no salvation outside the church, we must hope. even bl. pio nono [pius ix] immediately invoked god's mercy on cavor -that apostate who helped steal the papal states and vexed altar and throne for years- when that man died outside the church. and straightaway pio nono said mass for him, his archenemy, so to speak. god bless you, theo. Thank you Donna. That was my point. Although we should never ever water down the faith, at the same time, we have to be aware that we are dealing with real people who don't study theology and want answers. There has to be a sensitivity in dealing with sensitive issues otherwise people may get the wrong impression, as Blue Rose demonstrated so well. Again, I am not saying that we water down the faith, we have enough of that, rather, we have to be sensitive to people in their state of lives, and take a more "pastoral" way of explaining that truth to them. I like how Ironmonk pointed out that the Church has never definitively taught that anyone is in Hell. Granted, there have been many personal revelations that have attested to the fact that there are some in Hell, and the Church teaches the existence of Hell, but at the same time, the do not say who specifically goes to Hell. We have to remember so many people are ignorant of the teaching of Hell, what a sin is, what constitutes a mortal sin, yet sometimes we want to make the snap judgement that they have immediately fallen into Hell. We never know the depth of God's mercy, nor do we know exactly what will constitute His ultimate judgement. It used to be a lot clearer, because we used to be well-educated in the faith. Now, as a result of a lack of adherence to the true teachings of the Church, we have a lot of people walking around completely ignorant of their own faith, and though they may have been in objective mortal sin, how do they know it is even a mortal sin? As someone else pointed out in another thread, watch any sitcom and you will see this to be the case. We know it is wrong, but how many of those actors and actresses even know that what they are doing is a sin? This is where priests have a great responsibility and, at the same time, are culpable for not properly teaching what the Church teaches and has taught. What happens when a priest does speak out, when a Church teaches unabashedly the truths of the faith? The Church and its members are exploited and there is a strong desire today to silence the Church and her members in the world, for as one priest said to me, "everyone wants to muzzle the barking dog." How do we teach what the culture doesn't want to hear? How do we bring the message of Christ to those that don't even know about sin? How do we tell them about the reality of Hell, when they don't even know it exists? That is the challenge, and that is why, in my opinion, so many don't even know about God. God Bless Edited November 11, 2003 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I feel moved to ask my question again: Does addiction to the sin in question reduce its culpability under criterion #2 for mortal sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I feel moved to ask my question again: Does addiction to the sin in question reduce its culpability under criterion #2 for mortal sin? I believe the answer is yes. Obviously, though, one must try to overcome the addiction, and still confess it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianney Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 so if one was to have an addiction to masterbating you could say he or she is less culpable and therefore possibly it would be a venial sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Gus Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 It would be hard to draw the line, but yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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