Souls In Hell

[Donna]

kms!

the baby's on my lap, twyeen to eat gwahm cwackaws.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Hugs to you, Donna, and smooches to baby-kins. :)

[Uncle Gus]

Just to recap on mortal sin:

Originally posted by me somewhere else

Yes, the three conditions of mortal sin are:

1) Full knowledge.

2) Full consent.

3) Grave matter.

You must be fully aware of the consequences of the sin, and have full intention to commit the sin, and the sin must be of serious matter. Thus, there is no list of "which sins are mortal," as what is a venial sin for one person can be a mortal sin for another, but these rules always apply.

[ICTHUS]

If one is addicted to the sin in question, but knows it is wrong, does it reduce the culpability (criterion number 2)???

[Faithful heart]

Thank you, I understand. I wish my prayers could help those souls, but like so many of you said it was their choice. I will continue to pray for those here and in purgatory.

[Theologian in Training]

theo, i sure wouldn't say that as a priest, after the fact. what good would that do, unless maybe the wife or children spoke their fears in private to him. one lady did this w/ the cure of ars.

but what do i know...the priest is like the watchman, is he not [not just the bishop being the watchman]...if he fail to instruct the flock, and etc;

theo, my dad died suddenly as a protestant. i've tried to gain the plenary indulgence for him a number of times... have mass said... pray for him.

today i tried to gain the indulgence for my g'pa, never met him, died protestant in the 1930's.

so, even w/ the no salvation outside the church, we must hope. even bl. pio nono [pius ix] immediately invoked god's mercy on cavor -that apostate who helped steal the papal states and vexed altar and throne for years- when that man died outside the church. and straightaway pio nono said mass for him, his archenemy, so to speak.

god bless you, theo.

Thank you Donna.

That was my point. Although we should never ever water down the faith, at the same time, we have to be aware that we are dealing with real people who don't study theology and want answers. There has to be a sensitivity in dealing with sensitive issues otherwise people may get the wrong impression, as Blue Rose demonstrated so well. Again, I am not saying that we water down the faith, we have enough of that, rather, we have to be sensitive to people in their state of lives, and take a more "pastoral" way of explaining that truth to them.

I like how Ironmonk pointed out that the Church has never definitively taught that anyone is in Hell. Granted, there have been many personal revelations that have attested to the fact that there are some in Hell, and the Church teaches the existence of Hell, but at the same time, the do not say who specifically goes to Hell.

We have to remember so many people are ignorant of the teaching of Hell, what a sin is, what constitutes a mortal sin, yet sometimes we want to make the snap judgement that they have immediately fallen into Hell. We never know the depth of God's mercy, nor do we know exactly what will constitute His ultimate judgement. It used to be a lot clearer, because we used to be well-educated in the faith. Now, as a result of a lack of adherence to the true teachings of the Church, we have a lot of people walking around completely ignorant of their own faith, and though they may have been in objective mortal sin, how do they know it is even a mortal sin? As someone else pointed out in another thread, watch any sitcom and you will see this to be the case. We know it is wrong, but how many of those actors and actresses even know that what they are doing is a sin?

This is where priests have a great responsibility and, at the same time, are culpable for not properly teaching what the Church teaches and has taught.

What happens when a priest does speak out, when a Church teaches unabashedly the truths of the faith? The Church and its members are exploited and there is a strong desire today to silence the Church and her members in the world, for as one priest said to me, "everyone wants to muzzle the barking dog."

How do we teach what the culture doesn't want to hear? How do we bring the message of Christ to those that don't even know about sin? How do we tell them about the reality of Hell, when they don't even know it exists?

That is the challenge, and that is why, in my opinion, so many don't even know about God.

God Bless

Edited November 11, 2003 by Theologian in Training

[ICTHUS]

I feel moved to ask my question again:

Does addiction to the sin in question reduce its culpability under criterion #2 for mortal sin?

[IcePrincessKRS]

I feel moved to ask my question again:

Does addiction to the sin in question reduce its culpability under criterion #2 for mortal sin?

I believe the answer is yes. Obviously, though, one must try to overcome the addiction, and still confess it.

[vianney]

so if one was to have an addiction to masterbating you could say he or she is less culpable and therefore possibly it would be a venial sin?

[Uncle Gus]

It would be hard to draw the line, but yes.

[megrc]

I pray for my dad, and I think he's in hell(long story). I know it wont change were he is, but I feel better doing something.

[foundsheep]

I'm starting to get annoyed with the Catholic Church.  I'm tired of hearing constant, "You'll go to hell if you.." and "You'll go to hell if you don't...".

Thats a reversal, Im used to hearing Im going to hell because Im an catholic.

[BLAZEr]

Hell smells of elderberries . . . I WANT to be warned about what will lead me there.

[Uncle Gus]

I think there is a shameful lack of fire and brimstone in the Catholic Church at the moment, actually. Everyone's too "oh.. well... as long as you try hard.... I'm sure you'll be okay." BOLLOCKS! We need people to say "you're sinning. Sort yourself out." We need people who aren't afraid to be convicted.

[Donna]

Boy, Vianney, I wouldn't want to take that to the bank. That really needs a learned and holy priest to answer, on an individual basis. But he must be learned! Even Theresa of Avila complained in her day that unlearned priests abounded.

Pick up that Thomas Aquinas, how will you have the time? Ask St. Thomas to get you the time...

Dear Lord! We perish for lack of knowledge (variation of what Theo said). More than ever we need devotion to Our Lady. By 1917, devotion to our Lady's Immaculate Heart was not yet established. Think of that! I mean, all those preceding centuries of Marian Devotion.

Icthus, have you a learned priest you can consult? Is there one you admire, even from afar? That you could write to, to simply ask, "Would you consider giving me counsel if ever I need it?" And if he says "yes", don't overwhelm him (maybe one situation a month write him about). How many of us need spiritual direction!

I know folks who've prayed for years to find someone to direct them. Be patient. But start looking.

[vianney]

Hey Donna; This is just a hypathetical question but a good one. I have had priests tell me yes and some say they dont know. To be honest I havent found one person to give me an answer to this. Either way though if someone has this problem they shoudl take it to the confessional I am just simply wondering because even though addictions occur you still know you are doing the act of sin. For example a cigarette smoker knows they are lighting up but they just cant stop. What if the same holds true for sexual self pleasure?

Venial or Mortal?

[p0lar_bear]

Factors such as addiction can reduce the ability to act with free consent and, therefore, reduce a person's culpability in a sin involving grave matter.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church mentions force of habit specifically in regard to masturbation.

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit , conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability (no. 2352, emphasis added)

However, one should not presume that he is not committing mortal sin because of an acquired habit or addiction. This could be determined on an individual basis with the aid of a confessor or spiritual director.

Even if it is not mortal sin, it should be confessed because of the graces gain through Confession to resist temptation and to avoid sin.

[vianney]

ne one else disagree with polar (not saying i do or dont)

[IcePrincessKRS]

ne one else disagree with polar (not saying i do or dont)

I don't think anyone's going to disagree with him, he's using the Catechism as proof for what he's saying. ;)

[vianney]

i know, but i have been told by priests before that this could also be considered a mortal sin regardless of the addiction to masterbating. So that is why i am asking for further opinions.

People often times quote the chatechism wrongly. I am wondering if this might be one of those instances or if this exert of the cathechism is applying to the habitual addiction to masterbating. ;)