Souls In Hell

[megrc]

I pray for my dad, and I think he's in hell(long story). I know it wont change were he is, but I feel better doing something.

[foundsheep]

I'm starting to get annoyed with the Catholic Church.  I'm tired of hearing constant, "You'll go to hell if you.." and "You'll go to hell if you don't...".

Thats a reversal, Im used to hearing Im going to hell because Im an catholic.

[BLAZEr]

Hell smells of elderberries . . . I WANT to be warned about what will lead me there.

[Uncle Gus]

I think there is a shameful lack of fire and brimstone in the Catholic Church at the moment, actually. Everyone's too "oh.. well... as long as you try hard.... I'm sure you'll be okay." BOLLOCKS! We need people to say "you're sinning. Sort yourself out." We need people who aren't afraid to be convicted.

[Donna]

Boy, Vianney, I wouldn't want to take that to the bank. That really needs a learned and holy priest to answer, on an individual basis. But he must be learned! Even Theresa of Avila complained in her day that unlearned priests abounded.

Pick up that Thomas Aquinas, how will you have the time? Ask St. Thomas to get you the time...

Dear Lord! We perish for lack of knowledge (variation of what Theo said). More than ever we need devotion to Our Lady. By 1917, devotion to our Lady's Immaculate Heart was not yet established. Think of that! I mean, all those preceding centuries of Marian Devotion.

Icthus, have you a learned priest you can consult? Is there one you admire, even from afar? That you could write to, to simply ask, "Would you consider giving me counsel if ever I need it?" And if he says "yes", don't overwhelm him (maybe one situation a month write him about). How many of us need spiritual direction!

I know folks who've prayed for years to find someone to direct them. Be patient. But start looking.

[vianney]

Hey Donna; This is just a hypathetical question but a good one. I have had priests tell me yes and some say they dont know. To be honest I havent found one person to give me an answer to this. Either way though if someone has this problem they shoudl take it to the confessional I am just simply wondering because even though addictions occur you still know you are doing the act of sin. For example a cigarette smoker knows they are lighting up but they just cant stop. What if the same holds true for sexual self pleasure?

Venial or Mortal?

[p0lar_bear]

Factors such as addiction can reduce the ability to act with free consent and, therefore, reduce a person's culpability in a sin involving grave matter.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church mentions force of habit specifically in regard to masturbation.

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit , conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability (no. 2352, emphasis added)

However, one should not presume that he is not committing mortal sin because of an acquired habit or addiction. This could be determined on an individual basis with the aid of a confessor or spiritual director.

Even if it is not mortal sin, it should be confessed because of the graces gain through Confession to resist temptation and to avoid sin.

[vianney]

ne one else disagree with polar (not saying i do or dont)

[IcePrincessKRS]

ne one else disagree with polar (not saying i do or dont)

I don't think anyone's going to disagree with him, he's using the Catechism as proof for what he's saying. ;)

[vianney]

i know, but i have been told by priests before that this could also be considered a mortal sin regardless of the addiction to masterbating. So that is why i am asking for further opinions.

People often times quote the chatechism wrongly. I am wondering if this might be one of those instances or if this exert of the cathechism is applying to the habitual addiction to masterbating. ;)

[Donna]

Moderation in smoking, the Church teaching, right?

But smoking more than moderately is not a mortal sin.

Vianney, who knows about your other question?

I love your avatar.

[BLAZEr]

We have to be careful how we use the term "addiction" I believe the catechism uses the phrase "force of habit."

The most holy and orhtodox priests I know treat this as a serious sin, which needs confessing, but also needs compassion in the confessional. We know when we choose ourselves over and against God . . . this is true in an act of impurity especially. There are times that we give in to the temptation and times that we fight the temptation with all our strength and lose. Both times are transgressions, both times require the confessional, but both times are not the same.

The only way to drive out some demons is with prayer and fasting. This is especially true of those demons that attack our sexual purity. I'm not a priest, but this is the advice I give to young men who talk to me about this problem (thankfully, I have never had to talk about this with a young woman. Not that I'd be unwilling, but I probably wouldn't be the right person, since I'm a man, and not a priest).

First: You must pray every day for your purity. Pray to Mary, Mother and Model of Purity. Pray to St. Joseph, her most chaste Spouse. Pray to Bl. Pier Giorgio, Bl. Marcel Callo, and Bl. Francisco Castello Aleu.

Second: You must fast, at least one meal a week. It would be better if you gave up some enjoyable thing at every meal. (no ketchup with those fries, no coke with your lunch, no salt on those veggies, no desert with dinner, no popcorn with that movie, etc.)

Third: You must go to mass as often as you can, and at least one more time each week than Sunday.

Fourth: You must go to confession at least once a week.

Now, are these hard fast rules? Of course not, but I will say from experience, that this works. I will also say that it is not a "short" route. Sometimes it takes years of this method to notice any change. Sometimes you will find a very quick freedom from this habit, and then occasional "re-lapses." Like any sin, it takes time to root out, and God does the work, you just cooperate with his Grace.

Okay, so this doesn't really answer your question . . . just suffice to say . . . you gotta do hard work to get results.

[ICTHUS]

We have to be careful how we use the term "addiction"  I believe the catechism uses the phrase "force of habit."

The most holy and orhtodox priests I know treat this as a serious sin, which needs confessing, but also needs compassion in the confessional.  We know when we choose ourselves over and against God . . . this is true in an act of impurity especially.  There are times that we give in to the temptation and times that we fight the temptation with all our strength and lose.  Both times are transgressions, both times require the confessional, but both times are not the same.

The only way to drive out some demons is with prayer and fasting.  This is especially true of those demons that attack our sexual purity.  I'm not a priest, but this is the advice I give to young men who talk to me about this problem (thankfully, I have never had to talk about this with a young woman.  Not that I'd be unwilling, but I probably wouldn't be the right person, since I'm a man, and not a priest).

First:  You must pray every day for your purity.  Pray to Mary, Mother and Model of Purity.  Pray to St. Joseph, her most chaste Spouse.  Pray to Bl. Pier Giorgio, Bl. Marcel Callo, and Bl. Francisco Castello Aleu.

Second:  You must fast, at least one meal a week.  It would be better if you gave up some enjoyable thing at every meal.  (no ketchup with those fries, no coke with your lunch, no salt on those veggies, no desert with dinner, no popcorn with that movie, etc.)

Third:  You must go to mass as often as you can, and at least one more time each week than Sunday.

Fourth:  You must go to confession at least once a week.

Now, are these hard fast rules?  Of course not, but I will say from experience, that this works.  I will also say that it is not a "short" route.  Sometimes it takes years of this method to notice any change.  Sometimes you will find a very quick freedom from this habit, and then occasional "re-lapses."  Like any sin, it takes time to root out, and God does the work, you just cooperate with his Grace.

Okay, so this doesn't really answer your question . . . just suffice to say . . . you gotta do hard work to get results.

Thanks Blazer, that really helps. I might try some of those things you listed.

[Theologian in Training]

I was reading a book yesterday that spoke of a "shortcut" in the spiritual life, and the strongest guard for our purity...the Blessed Virgin Mary, Our Mother.

When a child is sick, when a child is in need, when a child has to have someone kiss his wounds, who is the person to do so, but Our Mother.

Many a Saint have spoken of the rosary as the chain to purity, and how can it not be, we are invoking the help of an Immaculate Virgin, need we any other means of purity?

As regards the specific question of masturbation, we all know what is needed for a good confession, and how sincere of a resolve we are making when we say the Act of Contrition. We too also know whether it is habitual or an "addiction." At the same time, we are also aware that inherently, or objectively, masturbation is a sin, there are no two ways around it. However, we must also keep in mind the freedom, or lack thereof, that is influencing the decision. Paul said, "I do the things I do not want to do" but what makes us culpable is our own well-formed conscious in this matter. Well-formed, of course, in the context of what the Church teaches.

Please note that I am not a priest, and therefore what I say is not definitive, but based upon what I have learned and questioned with other priests, these are the "results" I have come to.

Ultimately, the decision is this, do I or do I not want to love God? If I do, when I fall, do I want to stay in that sin, be given over to it, or do I have the desire and resolve to sin no more? To sin no more not just because it is wrong and sinful and "I dread the loss Heaven and the pains of Hell, but MOST OF ALL because they offend YOU, my God, who are all good and deserving of all my love." Therefore, "I firmly resolve, to sin NO MORE, to avoid the NEAR OCCASION of sin. Amen"

Jesus fell three times on his way to Calvary, a righteous man falls seven times, the point wasn't the fall, but that they got back up again. Thus confession is not there to put a coin in the machine, get clean, and sin again, but to fall, realize the fall, admit the sin, confess, and resolve, with the grace of God, to sin no more.

God Bless

[Didacus]

Good info in this thread, good questions too. All catholics at one point or other likely asked themselves the same questions.  

Although the prayers for souls in hell may not help the souls in hell - no good intentioned act remains fruitless and the prayer does do good - IMO to whomever prayed.

So I wouldn't tell anyone to stop praying for any one soul, or for souls in hell in general.

I would advise to consider praying for the hells to be empty. The saints tell us to pray for this every day.