crazy protestant quotes

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]I don't see how we can respect a church that thinks the Pope as the Anti-christ, and calls us ungodly wretches....but hey thats just me.... [/quote]

First of all, Martin Luther is not a Church. He is a person. Lutherans do not worship the man, or hold everything he said as divinely inspired, caricatures notwithstanding.

Second, we are called to give an example. We can't respond to hostility with more hostility. We must respond with patient kindness. There is not other way to establish a reconciliation between brothers.

Yes, all Christians are brothers, in a supernatural (as opposed to natural) manner.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Lutherans still believe that the Pope is the anti-christ.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:38 PM'] don't the words

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS mean something to you? [/quote]
yep, but I'm willing to bet not what you think they mean.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:38 PM'] don't the words

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS mean something to you? [/quote]
Don't the words

QUANTO CONFICIAMUR MOERORE mean something to you?

[quote]There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.

Pope Pius IX[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:45 PM'] Lutherans still believe that the Pope is the anti-christ. [/quote]
Nope.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

well i take them as a literal defenition.

what do they mean to all of y'all?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:38 PM'] don't the words

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS mean something to you? [/quote]
Yes but I think you are misusing the phrase.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:41 PM'] i don't get it... [/quote]
I think he's adding a crazy Protestant quote.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Pope Eugene IV, A.D. 1431-1447: "It (the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church) firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that none of those outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but neither Jews, or heretics and schismatics, can become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" Matt. 25:41, unless before the end of life they have been added to the Church; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those abiding in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practised, even if he has shed (his) blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has abided in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Council of Florence, A.D. 1442

[Guest Eremite]

Pope Pius IX:

[quote]There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments. [/quote]

Pope Pius XII:

[quote]The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

(Letter to Feeney, via Holy Office)[/quote]

Second Vatican Ecumenical Council:

[quote]Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. [/quote]

So, to answer your question:

[quote]well i take them as a literal defenition.

what do they mean to all of y'all? [/quote]

I take it to mean what the Church takes it to mean, as indicated above.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:47 PM'] well i take them as a literal defenition.

what do they mean to all of y'all? [/quote]
You are compartmentalizing Church teaching just as Protestants compartmentalize Scripture to make it say anything they want it to say. Protestants can very well be imperfectly connected to the Church through their baptism. By way of invincible ignorance it is possible for them to be saved, so to through the baptism of blood, and all those who do not know about God and His salvation, but follow the precepts of the natural law and who would be baptized and join the Church if only given the chance may have eternal life. God is not confined to the box

[Paphnutius]

Indeed. Read Domine Jesus by the then Cardinal Ratzinger, he addresses this issue rather well. They are in imperfect union with the Catholic Church and share in that union so far as their doctrine and sacraments are in union with the Church. When they say the Catholic Church they are referring to the universal Church and not always the Roman Catholic Church...

Edit: It is called Dominus Jesus...sorry about the misspelling. Here is a link...I would recommend reading it [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFUNICI.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFUNICI.HTM[/url]

Edited June 2, 2005 by Paphnutius

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

was Pope Eugene IV not the vicar of christ?

[Guest Eremite]

Yes, he was.

As was Pius IX.

As was Pius XII.

As was Paul VI.

It is for them to explain what the Church teaches, not you.

[quote]Lutherans still believe that the Pope is the anti-christ. [/quote]


[quote]We [Lutherans] wish that agreement between our churches was such that we could look to you as our chief Pastor even now. Owing to the impossibility of such an arrangement at this time, we pledge ourselves to pray all the more fervently that you will find the burdens of office to be the easy yoke of Christ, that you will be the supreme bridge-builder (Pontifex maximus) between Christians, and that you will be a gentle but strong Shepherd of that portion of Christ’s flock placed under your jurisdiction and, by your example, give encouragement to those of us who are separated brothers and sisters. I hereby also request the members of The Society of the Holy Trinity to offer such prayers at all retreats of the Society, in the congregations in which they serve, and in their personal prayers. Gott befohlen.

Frank C. Senn, STS (Lutheran Pastor, in recent letter to the Pope)[/quote]

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

so you are saying the catholic church used to believe that No one except Catholics in a state of grace could go to heaven, but no we don't?

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:58 PM'] so you are saying the catholic church used to believe that No one except Catholics in a state of grace could go to heaven, but no we don't? [/quote]
No, you're saying that. I'm saying the Catholic Church believed, and believes, what Pius XII said she does:

[quote]The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
[/quote]

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

well Pope Eugene IV dosen't say the oppisite of that but he says beside baptism in the church their is no salvation.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:58 PM'] so you are saying the catholic church used to believe that No one except Catholics in a state of grace could go to heaven, but no we don't? [/quote]
No. We are saying that no one that is not incorporated into the universal (Catholic) Church, the Body of Christ that is in a state of grace cannot recieve eternal reward. That seems to be what has been said all along.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

so your telling me someone who is not catholic can be part of the body of christ and be in a state of grace?

[Brother Adam]

As Ermite said it is your interpretation of the clause, not the Churches intent. This is like saying that Romans 10:9 proves beyond doubt that we are saved by faith alone. The Bible and the Churches teachings must be understood with the intent of the author.