crazy protestant quotes

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

well i know the intent before vatican II.

[Paphnutius]

Did you read Eremite's post about baptism by desire?

Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 06:03 PM'] so your telling me someone who is not catholic can be part of the body of christ and be in a state of grace? [/quote]
Someone who does not belong to the visible Roman Catholic Church as an active member in full communion of the Church can be imperfectly united to the body of Christ and in a state of grace, yes.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

you are pushing me off the traditionalist cliff hear...

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:03 PM'] so your telling me someone who is not catholic can be part of the body of christ and be in a state of grace? [/quote]
Yes, that's what I'm telling you.

Baptism effects an ontological change. Valid baptisms, even those performed outside of the visible boundaries of the Church, regenerate a soul and graft him into the Body of Christ.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:06 PM'] well i know the intent before vatican II. [/quote]
Are you implying that the intent of the Church changed at this council?

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 06:06 PM'] well i know the intent before vatican II. [/quote]
Yes of course, because the Gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church and the Holy Catholic Church now embraces heresy and the Second Vatican Council was the sound of the death of the Church.

No.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:06 PM'] well i know the intent before vatican II. [/quote]
Pius IX and Pius XII, both of whom I cited, were before Vatican II. And they say the exact same thing the Church says today.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

no i am implying that the council is bieng interperted incorrectly.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.[/quote]

"it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member"

That's Pius XII. Before Vatican II.

[Tony]

"Catholics worship statues"

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

no.

[Paphnutius]

It seems like they stated it rather explicitly in the quotes listed...and int he current CCC

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." 63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

I dont think we are misinterpreting the intent here....

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Jun 2 2005, 06:09 PM'] Pius IX and Pius XII, both of whom I cited, were before Vatican II. And they say the exact same thing the Church says today. [/quote]
Pope Eugene IV does not take into account baptism by blood, being imperfectly united to the Church through baptism, or any such thing. What he says is correct, there is no salvation outside of the Church, but there is something to be said about the situations the other popes addressed, they cannot be ignored.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

desired baptism is more directed at the unborn.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:15 PM'] desired baptism is more directed at the unborn. [/quote]
The unborn cannot desire anything. They have no rational faculties.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

is baptism of blood doctirne?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:15 PM'] desired baptism is more directed at the unborn. [/quote]
Not really...there is a whole different section about that....This is in regards to cases like the thief on the cross and the like. Those that live in remote areas of the world that do not have the benefits of the Roman Church and the sacraments...

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

nice talkin

but i gotta go

cya y'all

Edited June 2, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Guest Eremite]

Wow. We've filled up three pages in just over an hour.