Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I like the books, but I think parents need to be careful. I think that good and evil is carefully portrayed accurately...except that the ends seem to justify the means in HP. As for new age...I think a reader who knows that magic is a bunch of carp will not have a problem...silly young people who don't realize that, however, might...
iggy Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 yeah, my little sister made "potions" in the sink out of my hair care products for a long while after the first book
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Hey people, keep in mind, the Holy Father's comments were concerning the dangers the books may present to the young. I agree with him...and I like Harry Potter books. That isn't a contradiction, it just means that if you DO read them, you should do so with the mindset of dividing what is good and entertaining from what is not spiritually edifying. As long as you are capable in discerning one from the other, you're fine. It is in cases where a person is [i]not[/i] capable that caution is very, very important - cases like young children.
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 [quote name='iggy' date='Jun 28 2005, 12:05 AM']yeah, my little sister made "potions" in the sink out of my hair care products for a long while after the first book [right][snapback]626027[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and I made swords out of sticks and fought dragons with merlin at my side when I was little. The question is not really about what objects kids are making with their imagination, the question is whether or not you sister was actively thinking about invoking demonic powers. Remember, Gandalf was a wizard and a magician in LOTR - the question is not "magic" but the source of power. If the source of the power is evil, then then power is evil, if the source is good, then the power is good. I kind of doubt your sister was being attracted to dark forces when she mixed shampoo and hair highlights. If she was, then thats the kind of stuff you need to watch out for.
Didacus Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Jun 27 2005, 08:02 PM'][snip] Parents should do their job, and parents who do their job have little to worry about. [right][snapback]625729[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think this is the key to it all. You can find wrong in just about anything, and I do not believe that hidding children from this sort of stuff is the awnser. Parents need to be there with their children, enter the children's world and talk with them and guide them. Children will always stray down questionable paths, but the guiding hand to whom they where entrusted should be there to guide them back. even if a nine year old was reading the bible itself, there should be a parent there to read the text with them to ensure a healthy understanding. As far as I read the statements, HP is not banned by the Vatican, just a few warnings of caution are issued. These, like anything from the vatican should be taken seriously, but let's not go overboard.
jasJis Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Exactly my point Didacus. Catholic parents should not let their kids under 11 or so read Harry Potter without any guidance. They should also be careful about what their kids do with other young kids who are allowed to read HP without parental guidance. Parents who do let their kids read HP or LOTR or the Narnia books should read them themselves and discuss the themes and issues. Parents must be involved. The warning is for parents to not assume HP is completely harmless and is a call for them to not ignore HP, but to put forth parental effort and involvement. Parents just saying NO to older kids or young teens aren't doing their job either. It should be an opportunity to read the books with their kids and discuss what are good examples and bad examples of behavior, etc. My 16yo is a HP fan, and I read all the books, will read the new one, and will discuss the issues and examples (good & bad). It's my job as a parent.
Kilroy the Ninja Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Ok folks, just because I sometimes like to rattle a cage or two, I thought I'd drop this story I found about Pope Benedict XVI and what he thinks of Harry Potter... [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05071301.html"]Look Here![/url] And here's the text of the story in case the link goes down... Source URL: [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05071301.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05071301.html[/url] LifeSiteNews.com Wednesday July 13, 2005 Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online RIMSTING, Germany, July 13, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - LifeSiteNews.com has obtained and made available online copies of two letters sent by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was recently elected Pope, to a German critic of the Harry Potter novels. In March 2003, a month after the English press throughout the world falsely proclaimed that Pope John Paul II approved of Harry Potter, the man who was to become his successor sent a letter to a Gabriele Kuby outlining his agreement with her opposition to J.K. Rowling's offerings. (See below for links to scanned copies of the letters signed by Cardinal Ratzinger.) As the sixth issue of Rowling's Harry Potter series - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - is about to be released, the news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expressed serious reservations about the novels is now finally being revealed to the English-speaking world still under the impression the Vatican approves the Potter novels. In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her "instructive" book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy. "It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger. The letter also encouraged Kuby to send her book on Potter to the Vatican prelate who quipped about Potter during a press briefing which led to the false press about the Vatican support of Potter. At a Vatican press conference to present a study document on the New Age in April 2003, one of the presenters - Fr. Peter Fleedwood - made a positive comment on the Harry Potter books in response to a question from a reporter. Headlines such as "Pope Approves Potter" (Toronto Star), "Pope Sticks Up for Potter Books" (BBC), "Harry Potter Is Ok With The Pontiff" (Chicago Sun Times) and "Vatican: Harry Potter's OK with us" (CNN Asia) littered the mainstream media. In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger "gladly" gave his permission to Kuby to make public "my judgement about Harry Potter." The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O'Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the "judgement" of now-Pope Benedict saying, "This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father's depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment." O'Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, "it is consistent with many of the statements he's been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him." English translations of the two letters by Cardinal Ratzinger follow: Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Vatican City March 7, 2003 Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby! Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail. It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly. I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleedwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book. Sincere Greetings and Blessings, + Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger ======================= Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Vatican City May 27, 2003 Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby, Somehow your letter got buried in the large pile of name-day , birthday and Easter mail. Finally this pile is taken care of, so that I can gladly allow you to refer to my judgment about Harry Potter. Sincere Greetings and Blessings, + Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Links to the scanned copies of the two signed letters by Cardinal Ratzinger (in German) - In PDF format: [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerletter.pdf"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerletter.pdf[/url] [url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerpermission.pdf"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratz...rpermission.pdf[/url] Enjoy!
Tony Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35235"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35235[/url]
avemarisstella Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Yay for Papa! I weakened when the films came out thinking, "I'm old enough to keep my faith intact..." Now, I see that that was a classic case of arrogant 'I have a pope in my belly' thinking. Here's O'Brien's great essay on the topic: [url="http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypotter/obrienpotter.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypott...rienpotter.html[/url] (from Catholic World Report) Yay!
Philippe Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 its fiction like anything else. How can this be bad if its read in the right context
kdewolf2 Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 I read the first "Harry Potter" book that came out and watched a couple of the movies. I know many people think there's nothing wrong with it , though I'd have to defer to the Pope's judgment. It is, after all, a function of his office to warn us about spiritual dangers. I'd have to say, it is most likely true in any case. Firstly, the whole series is mostly about witchcraft and the occult, which have been repeatedly condemned by the Church as diabolical. Secondly, it is, in my opinion, a very escapist and almost Manichean or Gnostic storyline. Obviously, people will say it's just harmless entertainment. But the reality is that what we read and what we watch influences the way we think and perceive reality. That's why propaganda can so easily sway public opinion. So, we have to be careful about that, even when there is no official word from the Holy See.
Dudette Posted July 13, 2005 Author Posted July 13, 2005 [quote name='Tony' date='Jul 13 2005, 03:41 AM'][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35235"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=35235[/url] [right][snapback]641733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thanks Tony, you got to it before I did...haha. Go Pope!
Guest Eremite Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 It's not really the Pope vs. Harry Potter. It's Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger vs. Harry Potter. Should the Holy Father choose to address Harry Potter formally, as Supreme Pontiff, that will be his preogative. But I highly doubt he will. I haven't read the books personally, but I have also had concerns, based on the topic material. Ultimately, it is up to parents to decide what is appropriate or inappropriate for their children.
Brother Adam Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 As an adult I will continue to be informed about the books and the wife will continue to read them and enjoy them for their entertainment value until the day comes that they are placed on the forbidden book list
Theoketos Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Philippe' date='Jul 13 2005, 02:11 AM']its fiction like anything else. How can this be bad if its read in the right context [right][snapback]641739[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It is not just like fiction because it contains spells from the occult. Harry Potter with Spells from the Occult = bad Fiction with out Spells from the Occult = not bad. HEY PEOPLE THE OCCULT IS BAD AND REALLY EXSISTS! Edited July 13, 2005 by Theoketos
Carrie Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 I'm reading the next book. The books are fiction and I'm adult enough to realize that. I like the Harry Potter series.
Guest Eremite Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Just because a book is fiction doesn't mean anything it says is a-ok. Trashy "love" novels are fiction. The characters aren't REALLY committing adultery. But that doesn't mean they're just fine to read.
Carrie Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 I understand your point. But the books are not forbidden (as of yet). They in no way corrupt me or my faith. I can't speak for those who may be more impressionable, but that is not the case for me. Ultimately, I will decide what is appropriate for me to read.
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