Problem of Evil

[infinitelord1]

another thing i would like to add to all of this.........if you do research on other religions like buddhism and hinduism............you will find that there version of morality is subjective (based on how one feels). They also are subjective when they suggest that there are many different roads to enlightenment. We have to admit that there are things in life that are objective.......here is a classic example........2+2=4.........if you were to believe otherwise you would be wrong. Sin is more than just going against the will of god........sin is also the opposite of the truth. If you were taught that 2+2=5 that would be a sin.........however, i dont believe that you would go to hell for something like this. Even though we might not know the reason for why something is wrong.........we have to have faith in god because he knows.

[Semalsia]

[quote name='infinitelord1']But we have the free will choice to join lucifer.......we dont know what its like as he didnt.........we dont really know anything.[/quote]

So non-catholics don't really know what they are doing? You know, everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. But if they don't have enough information, then obviously they are likely to make decisions they will later regret. Like joining Lucifer (/going to Hell). So humans are basically incapable of making good decisions, but are still punished for the mistakes they make. Fine, people choose Hell themselfs, but only in Hell can they realize that they have made a mistake. But it's too late then, people will suffer eternity for the (honest) mistakes they could not have avoided doing. If God would not forgive (what is there to forgive?!) and accept them into Heaven, that would mean God were somehow angry at them for not obeying Him in the first place.

Humans have made their decisions about what is right in this life, just at the time when they are incapable of making them. Still God demands absolute obedience even though people don't even understand it. You don't see how cruel that is? God is kicking his dog. The dog doesn't know better.

[quote name='infinitelord1']where do you think morality came from?[/quote]

Humans made it up. History of ethics is quite revealing.

[quote name='Mateo el Feo']Regarding your bringing up death: how else could we get to heaven unless we die?[/quote]

Exactly. You have glorified death and it's sick. For you it's the way to Heaven. For me it's the worst thing imaginable.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Jul 12 2005, 07:08 PM']So non-catholics don't really know what they are doing? You know, everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. But if they don't have enough information, then obviously they are likely to make decisions they will later regret. Like joining Lucifer (/going to Hell). So humans are basically incapable of making good decisions, but are still punished for the mistakes they make. Fine, people choose Hell themselfs, but only in Hell can they realize that they have made a mistake. But it's too late then, people will suffer eternity for the (honest) mistakes they could not have avoided doing. If God would not forgive (what is there to forgive?!) and accept them into Heaven, that would mean God were somehow angry at them for not obeying Him in the first place.

Humans have made their decisions about what is right in this life, just at the time when they are incapable of making them. Still God demands absolute obedience even though people don't even understand it. You don't see how cruel that is? God is kicking his dog. The dog doesn't know better.[/quote]

People have all the knowledge they need to get to heaven. If they willfully choose to ignore it, that is their choice. And as Catholics we beleive that the invincibly ignorant may be given a chance at salvation.

[quote]Humans made it up. History of ethics is quite revealing.
[/quote]

Then nothing can really be right or wrong; it is all totally subjective. By this logic, a Nazi "morality" is just as good as any other morality, and we have no reason to condemn anyone's actions.

[quote][quote name='Mateo el Feo']Regarding your bringing up death: how else could we get to heaven unless we die?[/quote]

Exactly. You have glorified death and it's sick. For you it's the way to Heaven. For me it's the worst thing imaginable.
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[/quote]

Christians do not "glorify death." Note that we are at the forefront of efforts to protect human life, whether that of the unborn, the elderly, the brain-damaged, etc., and fight the "culture of death." We simply beleive that death is an evil which Christ has overcome, and through his merits, we can enter into a new life with Him.

Death is inevitable for all of us - the only difference is that the Christian sees hope beyond death, while you do not.

Edited July 13, 2005 by Socrates

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Semalsia' date='Jul 12 2005, 07:08 PM']Humans made it up. History of ethics is quite revealing.

[quote name='Mateo el Feo']Regarding your bringing up death: how else could we get to heaven unless we die?[/quote]

Exactly. You have glorified death and it's sick. For you it's the way to Heaven. For me it's the worst thing imaginable.
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Is it logical to assume that one day a bunch of people all gathered in a circle in there thongs and talked with each other about what they thought was right and wrong? If this really happened then how do you explain things like sex before marriage etc. to be considered morally wrong. Most people certainly dont act like it is wrong.......they act on what they feel so they have sex before marriage. I am sure there are more things out there that are considered morally wrong that have a reason for being wrong that we cant explain. I hope you understand what i am saying. If humans sat around, like i said before, and made morality up.......things that were pleasurable would be right and things that caused pain would be wrong. Sex is a good example........it is pleasurable but it is only right if it is used in the right context. So my next question to you semalsia.......how and why did humans come up with the "concept" of sex being wrong before marriage?

Edited July 13, 2005 by infinitelord1

[Apotheoun]

This thread appears to be going nowhere.

[Guest T-Bone]

Threads like this--

those that are created in a spirit of hostility

--always do.

[infinitelord1]

PLEASE dont close this thread.........i love debating with atheists.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='T-Bone' date='Jul 13 2005, 04:55 AM']Threads like this--

those that are created in a spirit of hostility

--always do.
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whoa, what do you mean "those who are created in a spirit of hostility"