StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='CanCath' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:10 AM']Obvious to who? NEVER ASSUME. It is like the #1 rule in evangelization. [right][snapback]663685[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ----- DeeDee's post: "I seemed to be getting knocked down on phatmass (what does that mean anyway?) for a lot of my views. I grew up in a very liberal Catholic family, where everyone was accepted as being a child of God. I was taught to love my neighbor as Jesus loved us. Yet when I post my views in some of the forums, I get pounced on by holier than though types, quoting scripture and calling me ignorant. I was hoping to find a group of people outside of my circle of friends where I could discuss things about Catholicism and Christianity in general that I find hard to accept. I get the feeling that probably I should find another source. [b]I can't in good conscience change my views even though I know I'm a renegade or rebel.[/b] But then, I always have been. I don't take these things lightly, and my beliefs and views are arrived at by prayer and discernment. They just don't seem to fall in step with conservative Catholicism." ----- Her outright refusal (see bold) followed by her comment of the last Christian is not a mere assumption. Regardless, we all do the Church's work in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:10 AM'][snip] It would take a very interesting experience to make her question her belief about homosexuality. I don't believe we're equipped to give it to her. [right][snapback]663684[/snapback][/right] [/quote] We would not have given her an experience, but could have set her on the path, or at least point it out in such a fashion that she could have taken a good look. And whta kind of attitude is this "Cut my losses and run.". SFD!!!! If that attitude being played on me when I had reservations on my faith I would be half way to Hell by now (or already there). Fortunately, God never gives up - neither should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:16 PM']Regardless, we all do the Church's work in different ways. [right][snapback]663695[/snapback][/right] [/quote] some ways are just more damaging than edifying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:20 PM']SFD!!!![right][snapback]663701[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What does that mean? Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:16 AM']----- DeeDee's post: [snip] ----- Her outright refusal (see bold) followed by her comment of the last Christian is not a mere assumption. Regardless, we all do the Church's work in different ways. [right][snapback]663695[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Do you want your T-shirt now? I admit she had some pretty harsh words for us, and she had a bit of the "I can dish it but can't take it." attitude. But nonetheless, her being closed minded (as it seems) and saying harsh things (that where clearly incorrect in many respects) is not reason to close the dialogue and brush her off as a heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='CanCath' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:24 AM']What does that mean? Sorry... [right][snapback]663706[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'll PM it to you but you havew to promise not to tell dUst... [font="Times"][i]I already had a warning from him for foul language....[/font][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 My lips are sealed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:58 AM']DeeDee and her ilk now know that Catholics are meant to be obedient. This may occur to her a time from now, but it is succinct.[right][snapback]663662[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, we are meant to be obedient. However, material heresy is everywhere and not all are aware of it. As I said earlier, people don't understand the extent of obedience. I was once in favor of female clergy because I thought that the prohibition on it was one of those "private opinions" of the popes. You're right...these people know that they're supposed to be obedient...but they don't understand what that means (they don't know what the Church teaches) and they don't understand the extent of obedience required. That is what we need to explain to them. A good doctor looks at the symptoms and finds the problem before trying to treat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:20 AM']We would not have given her an experience, but could have set her on the path, or at least point it out in such a fashion that she could have taken a good look. And whta kind of attitude is this "Cut my losses and run.". SFD!!!! If that attitude being played on me when I had reservations on my faith I would be half way to Hell by now (or already there). Fortunately, God never gives up - neither should we. [right][snapback]663701[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm growing tired of this. And SFD right back at you. Nowhere did I say to cut losses. I suggest no compromises. Nor a discussion that would lead to such as been the case for far too many years following Vatican II. Stating that Catholics are neither liberal or conservative but obedient needen't be met with such scorn from supposed Church faithful. As for going to hell, this was not a matter of stating that all Catholic's are sin-free. I am a sinner as are you, but to not acknowledge the sinful ways is a sin. As for an experience, I'm sure she is getting one by how confused many of you are and how teaching and defending the faith comes second to "feelings." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 29 2005, 10:35 AM']Yes, we are meant to be obedient. However, material heresy is everywhere and not all are aware of it. As I said earlier, people don't understand the extent of obedience. I was once in favor of female clergy because I thought that the prohibition on it was one of those "private opinions" of the popes. You're right...these people know that they're supposed to be obedient...but they don't understand what that means (they don't know what the Church teaches) and they don't understand the extent of obedience required. That is what we need to explain to them. A good doctor looks at the symptoms and finds the problem before trying to treat it. [right][snapback]663721[/snapback][/right] [/quote] A good doctor asks what is wrong first before administrating treatment. Then examines and then gives the cold hard facts. There isn't a nice way to say, you have cancer, is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 28 2005, 06:15 PM']Catholics are neither liberal or conservative. They are obidient. [right][snapback]662867[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yeah... There is NOTHING in this post that will help someone who doesn't know what being obedient entails. What you said is very True. It's how you said it that is wrong. Edited July 29, 2005 by CanCath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='CanCath' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:18 AM']Yeah... There is NOTHING in this post that will help someone who doesn't know what being obedient entails. What you said is very True. It's how you said it that is wrong. [right][snapback]663781[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is absolute nonsense. What a disservice your attitude brings as well as those needing to dissent on me. That statement begs the next question which is "How can I be obedient?" And not the last Christian was nailed... If I stand alone on this, so be it, but you couldn't be more wrong in your statement. What are you guys smoking around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Welcome to the newest drama on Phatmass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:10 PM']A good doctor asks what is wrong first before administrating treatment. Then examines and then gives the cold hard facts. There isn't a nice way to say, you have cancer, is there? [right][snapback]663771[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No...but there is a nice way to treat it...with a soft touch and a scalpel, rather than a chainsaw. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with taking a look at the cold, hard facts and sometimes, being tough may be best...but there is a distinct difference between being tough and being firm. We are firm...we are unmoving and we won't budge. However, we are working to win souls, and shouting, "you're wrong, we're right" is not the way to go about it. Listening to a person's issues and concerns, determining the problem, and explaining the faith is the way to go about it. If a person is stubborn and disobedient, then shouting at them about it without taking the care to explain why will only make them angry. Now there are some people who know the truth, know what the Church teaches, and obstinately disobey not because they have a problem understanding, but because they refuse to follow what they know is a teaching of the Church. In such a situation, it must often be pounded out of them. However, we must act with prudence...we must first make certain that they actually know the faith they are rejecting. If they do not know what they are rejecting, then it can hardly be considered profitable to yell at them about how horrible they are for rejecting it. If they don't realize that they are believing something that is wrong or that they are required to believe it, then telling them how disobedient they are only leaves them thinking you're a jerk, because in their understanding, they've done no wrong. Rather, we must explain the wrong to them kindly and patiently. If they still reject it, we must provide a loving example to them of how to be obedient. If they continue to reject it (by this point, out of obstinance), then we must be firm handed and tell them about the consequences of such positions, but always with concern for their souls, not just to beat them down. We're not trying to conquer them...we're trying to win them. Remember that they are fellow soldiers on the battlefield...they're just headed the wrong way. They are soldiers nonetheless...don't leave a man behind... That means that when you see a soldier who's walking in a mine field, you help guide him out of it. If he continues to go the wrong way, you don't leave him to die...you try harder to get him to turn around, but you sure as heck don't try to push him further away because he's a "lost cause." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:36 AM']Welcome to the newest drama on Phatmass... [right][snapback]663810[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I predict 5 people will announce they're leaving Phatmass over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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