CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Raphael, WOAH!!! and WOW!!! And AWESOME! haha, that was Gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:41 AM']No...but there is a nice way to treat it...with a soft touch and a scalpel, rather than a chainsaw. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with taking a look at the cold, hard facts and sometimes, being tough may be best...but there is a distinct difference between being tough and being firm. We are firm...we are unmoving and we won't budge. However, we are working to win souls, and shouting, "you're wrong, we're right" is not the way to go about it. Listening to a person's issues and concerns, determining the problem, and explaining the faith is the way to go about it. If a person is stubborn and disobedient, then shouting at them about it without taking the care to explain why will only make them angry. Now there are some people who know the truth, know what the Church teaches, and obstinately disobey not because they have a problem understanding, but because they refuse to follow what they know is a teaching of the Church. In such a situation, it must often be pounded out of them. However, we must act with prudence...we must first make certain that they actually know the faith they are rejecting. If they do not know what they are rejecting, then it can hardly be considered profitable to yell at them about how horrible they are for rejecting it. If they don't realize that they are believing something that is wrong or that they are required to believe it, then telling them how disobedient they are only leaves them thinking you're a jerk, because in their understanding, they've done no wrong. Rather, we must explain the wrong to them kindly and patiently. If they still reject it, we must provide a loving example to them of how to be obedient. If they continue to reject it (by this point, out of obstinance), then we must be firm handed and tell them about the consequences of such positions, but always with concern for their souls, not just to beat them down. We're not trying to conquer them...we're trying to win them. Remember that they are fellow soldiers on the battlefield...they're just headed the wrong way. They are soldiers nonetheless...don't leave a man behind... That means that when you see a soldier who's walking in a mine field, you help guide him out of it. If he continues to go the wrong way, you don't leave him to die...you try harder to get him to turn around, but you sure as heck don't try to push him further away because he's a "lost cause." [right][snapback]663813[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Amazing. Did Christ say to Mary Magdalene, no problem keep all your worldly goods and that is fine with me? He told her as well as the church elders how things are to be done. Nothing about Christ was wishy washy. As for going to battle, I would worry about having some of you in my foxhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanCath Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 01:48 PM']Amazing. Did Christ say to Mary Magdalene, no problem keep all your worldly goods and that is fine with me? He told her as well as the church elders how things are to be done. Nothing about Christ was wishy washy. As for going to battle, I would worry about having some of you in my foxhole. [right][snapback]663830[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Is this guy reading the same thing I am reading? No one is being wishy washy here.... No one is compromising the Truth. We are simply not agreeing on the delivery of it. Stop reading into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:48 PM']Amazing. Did Christ say to Mary Magdalene, no problem keep all your worldly goods and that is fine with me? He told her as well as the church elders how things are to be done. Nothing about Christ was wishy washy. As for going to battle, I would worry about having some of you in my foxhole. [right][snapback]663830[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, I believe He said, "then neither do I condemn you." We're not saying that people should continue along their heterodoxy...we're all for conversion...but we need to be helping them grow in virtue in order to get out of vice, not just yelling at them about how wicked they are. For the sake of argument, let's try your tactic: "You're not being charitable. Charity is one of the three theological virtues. Therefore, in practice, you are heterodox. The Magisterium says and the constant teaching of the faith is that charity is necessary. Anyone who rejects it is in big trouble and can't consider himself Catholic. That's it. Goodbye." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:30 AM']That is absolute nonsense. What a disservice your attitude brings as well as those needing to dissent on me. That statement begs the next question which is "How can I be obedient?" And not the last Christian was nailed... If I stand alone on this, so be it, but you couldn't be more wrong in your statement. What are you guys smoking around here? [right][snapback]663800[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Nonsense? You need to step back a sec my friend. Your "obedience statement" MIGHT prompt someone to ask "How can I be obedient" but more that likely it would not. My first thought, were I in her situation would be a VERY sarcastic "gee thanks buddy." Which was pretty much what you got. You didn't tell her why. You didn't aproach with concern. You didn't show any understanding. You didn't take into account ANYTHING she said. You just said "smell of elderberries it up and fall into line." I'm not apologizing for DeeDee's point of view, because I don't agree with it. I agree less, however, with pompousness and rigidity. _____________________________________________________________ ASIDE: "Begging a question" means that a conclusion has been reached without sufficient or proven propositions. It does not mean "the statement brings to mind thios question". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:04 AM']I'm growing tired of this. And SFD right back at you. Nowhere did I say to cut losses. I suggest no compromises. Nor a discussion that would lead to such as been the case for far too many years following Vatican II. [snip] [right][snapback]663763[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No argument there, if you noticed in that post I was quoting toledo and not you. My apologies nonetheless... *sigh* and SFD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:36 AM']Welcome to the newest drama on Phatmass... [right][snapback]663810[/snapback][/right] [/quote] *free T-shirt for you!* Didacus corp. thanks you for your vewing preference. We feel it is important to support the little people on phatmass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='StMichael' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:04 AM'][snip] And SFD right back at you. [snip] [right][snapback]663763[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm telling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 (edited) I think the main problem is a misunderstanding of how Jesus loved his brothers and sisters. Jesus did [[color=red]edit because I don't know what you meant to say here, and it just looked odd] [/color]preach total forgiveness, but only in conjunction with John the Baptists repentance. The Truth will set you free, so that you may be free to do what is right. Edited July 29, 2005 by Azriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 29 2005, 11:59 AM']No, I believe He said, "then neither do I condemn you." We're not saying that people should continue along their heterodoxy...we're all for conversion...but we need to be helping them grow in virtue in order to get out of vice, not just yelling at them about how wicked they are. For the sake of argument, let's try your tactic: "You're not being charitable. Charity is one of the three theological virtues. Therefore, in practice, you are heterodox. The Magisterium says and the constant teaching of the faith is that charity is necessary. Anyone who rejects it is in big trouble and can't consider himself Catholic. That's it. Goodbye." [right][snapback]663859[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ahh Raphael, you are passing judgement by stating "You're not.." Furthmore you are condemning. None of which I did by stating that Catholics are neither liberal or conservative, but obedient. I stated a fact. You are dissenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 This, too , shall pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Children, have we had our fun yet? Notice how she is still not here? Quite an example it leaves when Catholics have to argue over silly nonsense like this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Jul 29 2005, 12:31 PM']Children, have we had our fun yet? Notice how she is still not here? Quite an example it leaves when Catholics have to argue over silly nonsense like this.. [right][snapback]663899[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, I had my fun... *pass the popcorn* We are on the same team here people...under the same captain with the same T-shirts and everything... lets remember that. And I suspect DeeDee is not all that far away... I mean... who can possibly stay away from phatmass for more than a day?!?!? (except for Dudette whom I understand has suceeded this feat for about three days, maybe more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudette Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 no I did it for a week! Gosh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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