Speaking of Virgins

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Aug 15 2005, 09:55 PM']To be blunt - Ditch the bum!
Don't let yourself be manipulated.
Sure, it hurts now, but later on, you won't regret it.

I'll pray for you.
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Well said!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='desertwoman' date='Aug 15 2005, 07:34 PM']He was cool until he saw one of his old friends.  They began talking about relationships and the lot, and then he asked my boyfriend (Johnny) if he "hit it or not." 

He told him no, that he was respecting my decision to wait till marriage.  His friend laughed at him, and told him that he was a better man than him, and that he would have already left me.  Since they had that convo, he began acting strange.

I keep telling him that since him and his buddy talked about that that his entire persona changed, but he doesn't believe me.
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That's actually pretty creepy. Would you want to be married to a guy who changed personas like that. Maybe these are more his true colours? (oh, crrrap, I'm having flashbacks of that 80's thread...)

[sweetpea316]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 15 2005, 10:02 PM']Maybe these are more his true colours? (oh, crrrap, I'm having flashbacks of that 80's thread...)
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Am I the only one that got that?? I sure hope not...

[Old_Joe]

Prayers!

[Angel]

If he truly cares for you, respects you, honors you, he will respect your decision to wait. Guys who pressure and manipulate like that, are only thinking about themselves. I dont know both of you, but any guy that loves you isnt going to just throw you away because you wish to wait to have sex when your married ( which is awesome and im happy you plan to wait ) Instead a guy that loves you and wants to be with you will do [i][b]Anything [/b][/i] for you If he truly loves and cares for you and wishes to spend the rest of his life with you, hes going to do anything he can to keep you and agreeing to wait until marriage shouldnt be a big deal. Because its sacred and a special union for 2 people who are married and in love and totally commiting themselves to one another for life. There are so many things you can do together to show you love eachother before your married that do not involve sex. Let him know how you feel and tell him straight up if he loves you, cares about you, sex shouldnt matter. You value it, he should to. He should respect you, so if he doest think the same way you do , hes not worth it. There are so many good christian men who will treat you like a princess and will value you and will wait for you

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Aug 15 2005, 02:14 PM']The Church may not recognize it as Sacramental.  But as to whether or not it was a valid marriage... that is exactly what the Church Tribunal is for.


In other-words.  Whoever told you this seams to be saying that you would have to get it annulled if the Church DID recognize it as valid, in which case an annullment would be impossible.

If you were told the Church doesn't recognize it, then it should be easy enough to have the Church confirm this for Herself.

A good starting point would be your Pastor.

God bless.
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More confused than ever and no longer really interested in whether it is or not. It has been over 20 years ago. At the time I asked three different priests whether I needed an annulment and got 3 different answers (I promise).

See where my confusion comes in? Things haven't changed in that depending on who you ask depends on the answer you get.

I wish someone would make up my mind.
Too many cooks in the kitchen.

[theculturewarrior]

If my (hypothetical) girlfriend told me she wasn't a virgin, I would tell her to become one.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote]I don't want to ruin a good thing...[/quote]
ok- straight up, a good thing is not to ask you to sin

[Mickey's_Girl]

First of all, prayers for all reading this thread who are struggling with this issue. May God be with you!

Second: a big red flag went up in my mind when you said that he changed his mind *after he talked to his friend*. Like, he was cool until he knew that his friends had a problem. That seems like the opinions of others hold WAY too much sway here...especially on something so important.

You are worth more than that. From personal experience, I can tell you that waiting is better than giving in. And being single with no regrets from sin is better than being with someone and spiritually unhealthy. I've known *several* wise women who married after age 30 (one in her late 40s!) who all confirm that waiting for the right man is far, far better than taking up with the wrong one.

Regarding annulments: when I was in RCIA, my priest took about 4 hours to discuss them (two whole class sessions). It's really a neverending story--thus the tribunal. But a point he made was really excellent: if you get a civil divorce, find out about your annulment as soon as you are up to dealing with the process, because you don't want to fall in love with someone and then have to decide if you're going to have to drop them or go against the Church. If one is sincere about one's faith, then such a decision would be utterly miserable.

Better to know before one is in the situation.

Best wishes and prayers to all.

MG

[Angel]

But I've been in similar situations before...and that kind of pressure really smells of elderberries. Most people don't understand how hard it really is unless they personally go through it. I know how it goes- you want to stay with him, you can't really see yourself without him. He's it. So then you get wrapped up in everything, and when he constantly pressures you and tries to get you to do things you don't wanna do, it's easier said than done to just say "no". Situations like this are realllly hard, because you know the right thing to do, but it constantly clashes with what he wants you to do..and you don't want to lose him...(I don't know if thats your situation, but I figure perhaps it's similar) But let me tell you, you don't want to be with a man who won't respect you. And yes, pressuring you into something he knows you're against, for his satisfaction, is disrespect. It's disgusting. You don't have to settle for it.

I totally agree with this, i was in this situation before myself and it wasnt a pleasant one. And the terrible truth is some ppl dont even listen to no. You can say no all you want and if a guy is selfish enough he doesnt care, only about himself . If someone cares about you, they are not going to sit there and pressure you, manipulate and make you do something you dont want to do. They want you to be happy, not go against something you stand for. Trust me on this that there are real decent amazing christian guys that will listen to you, and are actually waiting themselves And your a lovely young woman, who at 26 has the rest of her life to find the real love of her life So because its your first boyfriend dont depair and think if you dont keep him you may never find another one. If he doesnt want to wait , just drop him trust me hes not worth it. Virginity is a beautiful and sacred thing, defend it with everything you have and save it for that special man that God created for you. You came this far ( congrats!) you can keep going, and wait for the right one. DOnt waste it on a loser (srry) that just wants to satisfy himself. You want to wait, want to be with the one you will be with forever, im not sure if this is the one if hes not respecting you, if hes not now, i doubt he will when your married. I cant stress enough that dont ever do something your going to regret later. Trust me he can act all lovey now but maybe if he pushed long enough and he got what he wanted, who knows how things would turn out, you dont want to look back and say you lost it because of him. I have to say its great that youve come this far It is an amazing gift you can share with your husband , and to beable to tell him and show him how much he really means to you I'll be praying for ya God Bless you

[Norseman82]

[quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Aug 16 2005, 06:00 PM']If my (hypothetical) girlfriend told me she wasn't a virgin, I would tell her to become one.
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It doesn't work that way. Once it's gone, it's gone.....

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Aug 17 2005, 08:15 AM']It doesn't work that way.  Once it's gone, it's gone.....
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All too true. Thank God that through his grace, the stain of sin can be washed away.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Aug 17 2005, 08:55 AM']All too true. Thank God that through his grace, the stain of sin can be washed away.
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The stain, but not the temporal consequences.

[Sirklawd]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Aug 17 2005, 12:02 AM']ok- straight up, a good thing is not to ask you to sin
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SOOOOOO TRUE.

you tell your boyfriend this. tell it right to his face. then ask him WHY he wants to have sex with you. and he better have a beaver dam good reason. (and seeing how the only good reason comes when sex is during marraige, i dont think this is gonna happen)

your consequences are the possible pain of losing him over the DEFINITE pain to your soul if you give in. trust in God. If following God's will ends up with this guy leaving you, its FOR THE BETTER. God's got your back, he isnt gonna let you down - gaurenteed you find happiness when you follow God's path. Push the point though, and dont back down. with any luck you can explain God's reason for no sex before marriage, and mabe this guy will really get it and understand and follow it too!

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='ofpheritup' date='Aug 16 2005, 04:33 PM']More confused than ever and no longer really interested in whether it is or not.  It has been over 20 years ago. At the time I asked three different priests whether I needed an annulment and got 3 different answers (I promise). 

See where my confusion comes in?  Things haven't changed in that depending on who you ask depends on the answer you get.

I wish someone would make up my mind. 
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
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I'm sorry to hear that you've been given varying advice. Truth be told, there are "bad" priests. They are all human, and thus they all have misunderstandings, etc.

If a priest can't give you a confident answer that coincides with Church teaching, than you have to step it up a notch.

Priests are the begin point, not the end point. If they aren't unanimous in their advice, than you can be sure that the Tribunal is the best place to take this. The Tribunal's answer is the answer.

The Tribunal is the cook, and there is but one cook for this kitchen. You've just seen to many waiters.


I must say, before I go on, please reconsider giving up. This is your soul, and that of your spouse, that we're talking about. It really DOES matter.

I'm not an expert on annulments. This is true. But it doesn't make any sense at all to me that one who had a civil marriage ceremony would NOT need an annulment.

If you go into a "marriage", civilly or not, with the intent to "marry", then until it is declared otherwise, it must be assumed to be a marriage.

Forget the Sacramental aspect of it for now. Marriage among Christians may or may not be Sacramental - depending on a variety of things. Marriage among non-Christians isn't Sacramental.

But Marriage is marriage. If the two parties are consenting and their intention is to marry, and there is nothing that would nullify this union, then it is assumed to be a marriage.

One doesn't get a marriage annulled. It is an oxymoron. You cannot undo a marriage. Annulment is the declaration that a marriage never existed. So if the marriage never existed, how can IT be annulled?

Those who have gone through a marriage ceremony, and had temporarily thought that they were married, and later had an annulment, may say "I got my first marriage annulled" out of habit. The truth is that there never was a first marriage. There was a marriage ceremony that ended in... nothing. A marriage never came to pass.

So, if you entered a marriage ceremony intending to marry, and left the "alter" or court thinking you had just been married, then it is imperative that you have the Church annalyse your situation to decide if you truly had been married.

You cannot make that decision, lest you place yourself in mortal sin.



Sorry to take the thread off topic, but this is something that needs to be said.

My prayers are with you. I know it is difficult, since it would be very inconvenient now for you to set things straight. But I would think the state of ones soul is much more important than convenience.

God bless.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='desertwoman' date='Aug 15 2005, 07:34 PM']He was cool until he saw one of his old friends.  They began talking about relationships and the lot, and then he asked my boyfriend (Johnny) if he "hit it or not."  .

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The question his FRIEND asked is nothing but CRUDE. I was in the Army for 5 years. AND I KNOW CRUDE WHEN I HEAR IT.. yuck, ugh, nasty, ooh, yuck some more.

What gets me is your guy didn't have a problem with the way his friend asked the question. Do you want to be with a guy who thinks like that? These guys are 1) NASTY 2) IDIOTS 3) They deserve each other.

Have you dumped the bum yet? Come on girl' get some self-respect and dump the bum.

And i am speaking to you the same way I would speak to my daughter. Who by the way is only 3 years younger than you.

Edited August 17, 2005 by ofpheritup

[Socrates]

[quote name='desertwoman' date='Aug 15 2005, 07:34 PM']He was cool until he saw one of his old friends.  They began talking about relationships and the lot, and then he asked my boyfriend (Johnny) if he "hit it or not." 

He told him no, that he was respecting my decision to wait till marriage.  His friend laughed at him, and told him that he was a better man than him, and that he would have already left me.  Since they had that convo, he began acting strange.

I keep telling him that since him and his buddy talked about that that his entire persona changed, but he doesn't believe me.
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Obviously, the dude is so inscecure about his manhood, that he feels he must do this in order to "prove himself" to his friends.

This guy ain't worth it.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='desertwoman' date='Aug 15 2005, 07:34 PM'] Since they had that convo, he began acting strange.

I keep telling him that since him and his buddy talked about that that his entire persona changed, but he doesn't believe me.
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I am answering this in my "mother mode." So just bear with me.

HE'S NOT ACTING, that is the way he is. He is being honest (huh?) when he says he hasn't changed. HE HASN'T. That is who he is.

There are BILLIONS of men on the planet.
GO GET ONE THAT DOESN'T EXPECT YOU TO CHANGE WHO YOU ARE.AND RESPECTS YOU.... I promise they are out there.

WHAT IS THE DIFFICULTY?

ok, "mother mode" over. :

[Luthien]

I've never been in a relationship where I've been pressured into having sex. But I have been pressured to be intimate in other ways. By other ways I mean to kiss when I didn't want to, stuff like that.

My point is, its not enough for a man to agree to not have sex with you. Though thats a start, it has to go beyond that for the relationship to grow. He needs to desire your good, to desire you bring you to Heaven. He has to see the beauty of sex and how he wants to keep you pure as well as himself pure.
If he can't see the beauty of his sexuality, he probably won't realize it in you either.

[b]You deserve more than this man has to offer you.[/b]