argent_paladin Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 We have basically exhausted on thread on NFP, but I find this issue quite provocative. Here is my assertion: [b]Practicing NFP to avoid pregnancy before one has concieved a child is immoral, except for life-threatening medical reasons.[/b] NFP properly used is to responsibly space births. It is not meant to delay the first birth. Marriage is ordered towards having children. NFP is not condusive to that. The two intentions are contradictory. Why would a couple get married if they weren't ready to have childen? [b]If you are practicing NFP, it means you are not ready to have children immediately. If you are not ready to have children immediately, you are not ready to get married,[/b] because it is ordered towards procreation (and unity of spouses, of course). Therefore, couples shouldn't practice NFP on their honeymoon. This is of great concern to me because I know many newly married couples who practice NFP, often for 3 or 4 years or more. I don't think that behavior can be reconciled with the meaning of marriage. If you are not financially or emotionally prepared to have childen, you are not prepared to get married. It is that simple. What are the options? Well, betrothal for one (see the great thread by Laudated Dominum on Open Mike). Or an extended engagement. I have never heard anyone else talk about this before, but for me it is not even a morally ambiguous issue. The first years of marrige, despite what society tells you, is not "couple's time", or time to be free without children. I even know of a couple that got divorce (and eventually annuled) because they agreed to practice NFP from the start but that masked the husband's intentions to never have children. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM']We have basically exhausted on thread on NFP, but I find this issue quite provocative. Here is my assertion: [b]Practicing NFP to avoid pregnancy before one has concieved a child is immoral, except for life-threatening medical reasons.[/b] NFP properly used is to responsibly space births. It is not meant to delay the first birth. Marriage is ordered towards having children. NFP is not condusive to that. The two intentions are contradictory. Why would a couple get married if they weren't ready to have childen? [b]If you are practicing NFP, it means you are not ready to have children immediately. If you are not ready to have children immediately, you are not ready to get married,[/b] because it is ordered towards procreation (and unity of spouses, of course). Therefore, couples shouldn't practice NFP on their honeymoon. This is of great concern to me because I know many newly married couples who practice NFP, often for 3 or 4 years or more. I don't think that behavior can be reconciled with the meaning of marriage. If you are not financially or emotionally prepared to have childen, you are not prepared to get married. It is that simple. What are the options? Well, betrothal for one (see the great thread by Laudated Dominum on Open Mike). Or an extended engagement. I have never heard anyone else talk about this before, but for me it is not even a morally ambiguous issue. The first years of marrige, despite what society tells you, is not "couple's time", or time to be free without children. I even know of a couple that got divorce (and eventually annuled) because they agreed to practice NFP from the start but that masked the husband's intentions to never have children. Very sad. [right][snapback]716026[/snapback][/right] [/quote] on this we agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:41 PM'] If you are not ready to have children immediately, you are not ready to get married[right][snapback]716026[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Don't you know that you can't say this out loud...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 It is precisely because NFP is used for grave reasons in avoiding children, that you cannot simply say "NFP is immoral for the newly wed" since it is entirely possible, and has happened that shortly after marriage the couple may run into an appriopriate 'grave reason' such as may be "life threatening". Circumstance is no respecter of the newly wed Know what is really hard though? Those newly wed couples who are open to life who desperately want children but for reasons outside of their control are medically infertile. Believe me, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:45 PM']It is precisely because NFP is used for grave reasons in avoiding children, that you cannot simply say "NFP is immoral for the newly wed" since it is entirely possible, and has happened that shortly after marriage the couple may run into an appriopriate 'grave reason' such as may be "life threatening". Circumstance is no respecter of the newly wed Know what is really hard though? Those newly wed couples who are open to life who desperately want children but for reasons outside of their control are medically infertile. Believe me, I know. [right][snapback]716034[/snapback][/right] [/quote] well I agree with you here accept that I would say that it would be extremely unusual to come up with a grave reason between I do and the end of the reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:47 PM']well I agree with you here accept that I would say that it would be extremely unusual to come up with a grave reason between I do and the end of the reception. [right][snapback]716038[/snapback][/right] [/quote] PS assming you wait that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 It would depend on what "newly wed" means. Usually I have heard it refer to the first full year of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:45 PM']It is precisely because NFP is used for grave reasons in avoiding children, that you cannot simply say "NFP is immoral for the newly wed" since it is entirely possible, and has happened that shortly after marriage the couple may run into an appriopriate 'grave reason' such as may be "life threatening". Circumstance is no respecter of the newly wed Know what is really hard though? Those newly wed couples who are open to life who desperately want children but for reasons outside of their control are medically infertile. Believe me, I know. [right][snapback]716034[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think the question at hand, though, it whether or not it's okay for couples to plan on using NFP to avoid prenancy from the wedding onward. No one should get married with the idea that they are already in a grave enough situation as to necessitate avoiding children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:48 PM']PS assming you wait that long. [right][snapback]716039[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 8 2005, 05:49 PM']I think the question at hand, though, it whether or not it's okay for couples to plan on using NFP to avoid prenancy from the wedding onward. No one should get married with the idea that they are already in a grave enough situation as to necessitate avoiding children. [right][snapback]716044[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argent_paladin Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 To clarify, I mean that it is immoral to intend to use NFP to avoid pregnancy, even for a limited time, at the time of the wedding. So: [b]Intending to practicing NFP to avoid a first pregnancy at the time of marriage is immoral, except for life-threatening medical reasons.[/b] And I really can't think of a life threatening reason. Can anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Ovarian cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 8 2005, 04:49 PM']I think the question at hand, though, it whether or not it's okay for couples to plan on using NFP to avoid prenancy from the wedding onward. No one should get married with the idea that they are already in a grave enough situation as to necessitate avoiding children. [right][snapback]716044[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I definitely agree with this. I find it sad that so many couples do marry with the express intent of waiting several years to have children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argent_paladin Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 It's interesting how we all agree so quickly, yet many faithful Catholics (or else they'd be using contraception) do exactly what we say is immoral. And I have never heard this mentioned, in all of my moral theology classes. Why not? Is it because it is too hard, that enough people are ignoring the contraception rules and this is one battle that is not worth fighting? I really don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Although I would be careful and let the Church make decisions on what qualifies a grave enough reason to use NFP, lest we condemn those we have no right to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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