Women...

[Philomena]

I don't know if this would be the right forum to post this in - sorry if it isn't. Can someone tell me whether or not it is okay for women to be lectors in Church? I'm confused about it because of the passage in 1 Corinthians 14: 34 where it says, "Let women keep silent in churches, for it is not permitted them to speak but to be subject, as also the law saith."

I'd like to read at Church, but I don't want to be offending God or anything.

Thanks.

Maria

[Thy Geekdom Come]

If I recall correctly, women can't be lectors (an installed position) but can be readers.

[Philomena]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 15 2005, 05:44 PM']If I recall correctly, women can't be lectors (an installed position) but can be readers.
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Thanks! I was meaning readers when I said lectors. I have always thought that the two were the same. Thanks again.

[son_of_angels]

Perhaps they can. Whether or not they should is a whole different question, to which I respond in the negative.

[White Knight]

I think 1st Timothy chapter 5 mentions something of this. If ya have your Bible and Catechism I suggest reading it.

[photosynthesis]

what about being a cantor?

and what evidence would you use to say that women cannot be lectors?

[White Knight]

I just stated 1 Timothy chapter 5 claims what you just said.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 16 2005, 05:04 AM']I just stated 1 Timothy chapter 5 claims what you just said.
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no, I meant real evidence. One Bible verse alone is not enough to prove that something is not true. While scripture is true, and divinely inspired, it is easy to take it out of context, and that leads to error.

I looked up women in a liturgy textbook (that my seminarian friend gave me) and it gave me this:

"With the exception of service at the altar itself, women may be admitted to the exercise of other liturgical ministries. In particular the designation of women to serve in such ministries as reader, cantor, leader of song, commentator, director of liturgical participation, etc, is left to the judgment of the pastor or the priest who resides over the celebration, in the light of the culture and mentality of the congregation.
"Worthiness of life and character and other qualifications are required in women who exercise liturgical ministries in the same way as for men who exercise the same ministries.
"Women who read one or other biblical reading during the liturgy of the word (other than the Gospel, which is reserved to a deacon or priest) should do so from the lectern or ambo where the other readings are proclaimed: the reservation of a single place for all the biblical readings is more significant than the person of the reader, whether ordained or lay, whether woman or man.
"Other ministries performed by women, such as leading the singing or otherwise directing the congregation, should be done either within or outside the sanctuary area, depending on circumstances or convenience."

This is from the Appendix to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

[White Knight]

Its not just one verse, but alot, read the one stated earlier.

[Briguy]

A non-Catholic view --

Paul's teaching had to do with teaching, leadership and authority. Women cannot teach men or have authority over them in any given local assembly. There is no problem with a woman reading in church, singing and that kind of thing. She can't however, preach or explain the scriptures she has read. She can't be in any position within the assembly where she makes an authoratative decision over a man. God has a "character" that needs to be on display in any assemby where people gather in His name. That Character includes men leading and women responding. Men and woman have equal importance within the assembly, just different roles.

In Christ,
Brian

Edited September 16, 2005 by Briguy

[toledo_jesus]

my motto has been and ever shall be:

"eschew obfuscation"


Therefore, anything which might blur the roles of priest and lay, woman and man, mother and father, et cetera, I oppose. I do not like seeing 5 women (one holding Gospel, 2 readers, 2 altar girls) and a priest in the procession to the altar. I am not down with women readers, or women approaching the altar. But, whaddaya gonna do?

One time my priest asked me to light some candles up there before a daily mass...I got really lightheaded and got the heck back down to where I belonged.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 05:16 AM']I looked up women in a liturgy textbook (that my seminarian friend gave me) and it gave me this:

"With the exception of service at the altar itself, women may be admitted to the exercise of other liturgical ministries.  In particular the designation of women to serve in such ministries as reader, cantor, leader of song, commentator, director of liturgical participation, etc, is left to the judgment of the pastor or the priest who resides over the celebration, in the light of the culture and mentality of the congregation.
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Notice that it doesn't say "acolyte" or "lector" or any other installed ministry.

There's a difference.

The fact is, I'm 100% certain that women can't be acolytes, but I'm only fairly certain from an educated guess that they can't be lectors.

Readers are different.

[Sarah_JC]

What is the difference between lector and reader?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sarah_JC' date='Sep 16 2005, 09:16 AM']What is the difference between lector and reader?
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One is an installed ministry and one is not. It's sort of like the difference between an acolyte and an EMoHC.

[Oik]

It is good to recall that this in not a judgement based on gender, rather, it is a judgement based on the tradition of the Church. In this reguard, it has little to do with the gender of a person. The installation of men only as lectors is directly related to the reality that the minor orders and installed positions are only open to men. Many do not know that when one is pursuing ordination, either to the diakonate or the priesthood, their is a process by which one receives multiple charges: For a deacon, I believe, it is lector, acolyte, then diakonate. For the priesthood, I believe, it is lector, acolyte, temporary deacon, Priesthood.

†
Chelsea

[Aloysius]

lector and acolyte are both ordained positions. it is altogether prefered that the person with the most stable appointed ministry be used. it is only in the abscence of a real lector that a reader (who may be female) can be used. but a lector can only be a male, and lector is the preferred person for the job. just as an acolyte is preferred to distribute with the priest, but in the abscence of an acolyte Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (who may be female) may be used in extreme circumstances (but not weekly or ordinarily)

Paul VI supressed the minor orders and as such someone not on the path to priesthood may hold these ordained positions

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:06 PM']lector and acolyte are both ordained positions.  it is altogether prefered that the person with the most stable appointed ministry be used.  it is only in the abscence of a real lector that a reader (who may be female) can be used.  but a lector can only be a male, and lector is the preferred person for the job.  just as an acolyte is preferred to distribute with the priest, but in the abscence of an acolyte Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (who may be female) may be used in extreme circumstances (but not weekly or ordinarily)

Paul VI supressed the minor orders and as such someone not on the path to priesthood may hold these ordained positions
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It should be mentioned that these do not mean that those "ordained" to these positions are given Holy Orders.

[Philomena]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 16 2005, 08:05 AM']Therefore, anything which might blur the roles of priest and lay, woman and man, mother and father, et cetera, I oppose.  I do not like seeing 5 women (one holding Gospel, 2 readers, 2 altar girls) and a priest in the procession to the altar.  I am not down with women readers, or women approaching the altar.  But, whaddaya gonna do?
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Yeah, at the Church I go to, all three altar servers are usually girls (there are like, five, male altar servers left at my Church), the readers are always women and out of the seven (!) extraordinary ministers at least 5 are always women. SOmetimes, so many women go up to distribute Communion, that the priest sits down and gives them his "spot" because none of them will leave.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:17 PM']It should be mentioned that these do not mean that those "ordained" to these positions are given Holy Orders.
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yes, but it is still only for men and that cannot be changed.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 16 2005, 11:17 AM']It should be mentioned that these do not mean that those "ordained" to these positions are given Holy Orders.
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No not sense VII but it should also be mentioned that there are some Acolytes and other minor orders still running around that where infact given Holy Orders lector, acolyte, porter, exorcist where all minor orders.