Women...

[Aloysius]

paul vi surpressed the minor orders in an attempt to avoid the predicaments we have today (excessive extraordinary ministers of holy communion and female altar boys to name two of them)

he had hoped that there would at least be made people with solid ministries holding up the falling roof that was coming with the priest shortage, otherwise a bunch of mere laypeople would be filling the gaps and ruining the ambiance of the liturgy.

because before they were only given these minor orders as they were on the road to the priesthood.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:54 PM']yes, but it is still only for men and that cannot be changed.
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Oh, I agree. I was just pointing to a distinction in terms.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:35 PM']paul vi surpressed the minor orders in an attempt to avoid the predicaments we have today (excessive extraordinary ministers of holy communion and female altar boys to name two of them)

he had hoped that there would at least be made people with solid ministries holding up the falling roof that was coming with the priest shortage, otherwise a bunch of mere laypeople would be filling the gaps and ruining the ambiance of the liturgy.

because before they were only given these minor orders as they were on the road to the priesthood.
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But the minor orders didn't require celebacy and many did not in fact become priest who where ordained in them. So there still are people running around ordained only to the minor orders-- I my self have known several Exorcist, that was the last of the Minor orders, so it was certianly not assured they would be priest. I'm not sure I by the trying to stave off the current problems theory I think Paul VI was smart enough to know that that wouldn't work.

[Aloysius]

hmm... I thought prior to his supression of them they were only given to people on the road to the priesthood

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:05 PM']hmm... I thought prior to his supression of them they were only given to people on the road to the priesthood
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"On the Road to" does not mean you become one I certanly can tell you that. While it may of been reserved for those on the " road" ( although I don't think it exclusivly was) there was no commitment to. It seems that expantion of the orders would have been more logical than to get rid of them all together

[Aloysius]

yeah... but ultimately the intention was more male acolytes and lectors... it is just ignored and people use female readers and female altar boys

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:27 PM']yeah... but ultimately the intention was more male acolytes and lectors... it is just ignored and people use female readers and female altar boys
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If that was really the intent then why didn't he just expand the lesser orders.

[Aloysius]

I don't know. what do you think the intent was?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:31 PM']I don't know.  what do you think the intent was?
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I refuse to speculate on this forum. :

[Proud2BCatholic139]

[quote name='Philomena' date='Sep 15 2005, 05:42 PM']I don't know if this would be the right forum to post this in - sorry if it isn't. Can someone tell me whether or not it is okay for women to be lectors in Church? I'm confused about it because of the passage in 1 Corinthians 14: 34 where it says, "Let women keep silent in churches, for it is not permitted them to speak but to be subject, as also the law saith."

I'd like to read at Church, but I don't want to be offending God or anything. 

Thanks.

Maria
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I am a lector at my church and from what I know as I talked to many priests, there is no rule that says women can not be lectors.

(I thought maybe that bible verse was talking about the laws of the church?)

[Oik]

[quote]Installed Acolyte

[i]Question from on 09-22-2004:[/i] 

How does one become an installed Acolyte and who is eligiable to do so? I have been an altar server for many years and am currently the head of altar serving in my parish. 

[i]Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 10-01-2004:[/i] 

Historically, the ministry of Acolyte was one of the four minor orders. From lowest rank to highest, they are Porter, Lector, Exorcist and Acolyte. In addition four major orders were recognized, Sub-Deacon, Deacon, Priest and Bishop. These Orders were all found in the early Church, as the Church historian Eusebius of Caesaria notes in his Church History. It also seems that in addition to being transitional to higher orders, some men were ordained into the lesser orders permanently.
Medieval theologians debated which of these orders were sacraments, and which were sacramental, and thus, which were of apostolic origin and which were of ecclesiastical origin. The judgment of the greatest theologians, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, and of Councils, such as Florence and Trent, was that the Orders of Bishop, Priest and Deacon constitute the Sacrament of Orders, and thus are of apostolic origin, and that the others are sacramentals (sacrament-like) instituted by the Church to assist the higher orders. In the re-union Council of Lyons, the Greeks were obliged to restore some of the minor orders they had ceased to practice, but their lack in the already ordained did not effect the validity of the Orders of Deacon, Priest and Bishop.

After Trent and before Vatican II, the four minor orders and the major order of the subdiaconate were received only by those in transition to the diaconate and priesthood. Vatican II restored the possibility of the permanent diaconate, and in 1972 Paul VI re-organized the minor orders in his apostolic letter Ministeria Quaedam. He reduced the number of orders preceeding Holy Orders, now calling them ministries, to those of lector and acolyte. He thus suppressed the orders of porter, exorcist and subdeacon in the Latin Church.

[b]Regarding who is eligible to be instituted into the ministries of Lector and Acolyte, it is only men.[/b] In general, bishops still reserve these ministries to candidates for Holy Orders, with a couple exceptions, but you can certainly ask your bishop whether it wouldn't be fitting that the person responsible for training servers receive a more permanent institution himself. I know of at least one cathedral whose lay Master of Ceremonies has been instituted Acolyte. The other general requirements are contained at the end of the Pope's document.

[/quote]

Proud2BCatholic,

It seems that there are many who use the term "lector" loosely. This, as you now can see, has caused a lot of confusion in terminology. A lector is installed and is open only to men. Women may be deputed to be readers.

In your case, there maybe training and scheduling and even practice. There may even be a blessing of your task. It is not however, an installation.

So, while it is the case that many parishes have taken up this terminology, it is used only to denote a specific character of your action. For reasons specific to the parish and according to your priest, you have been or are allowed to perform certain tasks proper to a lector. Simply, you have been deputed and not installed.

Hope this helps.
May God Bless You,
Chelsea

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=412375&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=lector&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=18&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at="]Link to Source: EWTN Q and A[/url]

Edited September 22, 2005 by Oik

[Ora et Labora]

Thats great Oik!

I don’t really like idea of alter girls, because, personally, I think the reason there are alter boys is so they could learn from a priest how the mass is held, how to do it, what words to say....its almost like an apprentice for the priest. And having alter girls is almost saying that they can be priests someday! It doesn’t make sense.

[Socrates]

I find women lectors annoying.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 22 2005, 07:32 PM']I find women lectors annoying.
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there are no women lectors, only women readers.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 23 2005, 03:49 AM']there are no women lectors, only women readers.
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I find women readers annoying.

[zabbazooey]

I don't ever think I could be a reader because I stutter when I try to read out loud and I can't help but stumble over the words....

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Sep 22 2005, 08:24 PM']Thats great Oik!

I don’t really like idea of alter girls, because, personally, I think the reason there are alter boys is so they could learn from a priest how the mass is held, how to do it, what words to say....its almost like an apprentice for the priest. And having alter girls is almost saying that they can be priests someday! It doesn’t make sense.
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You know what I fins annoying? Popele that spell 'altar' incorectly :

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 23 2005, 12:33 PM']I find women readers annoying.
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Yup.

Though I have not seen one since my grandfather's funeral last spring. Of course I have only been to the Novus Ordo once since then and that was at Christendom where they are not used.

[popestpiusx]

N.B.

The minor orders are no longer suppressed. The traditional orders still use them.

[socalscout]

How do women readers, lectors, whatever, or female Altar Servers have any impact on the Liturgy and your presence there?