toledo_jesus Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:44 PM']Compare the time frames, please, and then look up "justice." [right][snapback]727386[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How long does it take a rational person to make a choice? I think it's rather merciful that you are given a lifetime to come to a better understanding of God and how you should not reject Him. At least you get a choice.
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 He's never given me any reason to believe in him. All I have to go by are the illogical rantings of the clergy of some religion of a broken race. Why does he not prove his existence to me and then let me choose whether or not to worship him? Seems like a coward to me.
avemaria40 Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 He shouldn't have to prove Himself. Look how everything is perfectly arranged in nature. The Natural Laws, the Laws of Physics, how everything is made, just proves that SomeThing or SomeOne must have made it b/c u can't have something out of nothing. Also, research is confirming a gene that makes ppl spiritual. why have it if there is no Spirit to get in touch with?
CatholicBoy Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) In life, the decisions you make determine your fate. If you choose, e.g., to live a criminal lifestyle, eventually your decision to be a criminal will cause you to be incarcerated...or be killed. The way you choose to live, determines the outcome. God doesn't condemn you to hell, you do that yourself by the manner in which you live. God just gives you the choice. If you choose to live according to the tenets of christianity, including loving Christ, and you have a contrite heart when you do transgress, your eternal fate is one of bliss w/God. If you choose to live your life, according to you own will & reject God, then you've chosen your eternal fate. Think of it this way...You own your own home, your own car, your provide food, lodging & care for those under your roof. Now imagine that you have a rebellious person living under your roof, eating the food you worked hard to provide, using all your electricity & running up your monthly bill, leaving dirty dishes in the sink, borrowing your car w/out asking, never pumping gas into the tank,etc. And this person is constantly defying you & undermining your authority. Telling you he can do whatever he please & you have no say in the matter. How would you feel? What would you do? Would you reward him & put him in your will? Think about it. Edited September 17, 2005 by CatholicBoy
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 CatholicBoy, you're not seeming to understand the word "proportional"...
CatholicBoy Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:57 PM']CatholicBoy, you're not seeming to understand the word "proportional"... [right][snapback]727418[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As in what, Punishment ought to be proportional to the crime? I don't see it as "Punishment". I see it as the wages you yourself earned.
toledo_jesus Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:49 PM']He's never given me any reason to believe in him. All I have to go by are the illogical rantings of the clergy of some religion of a broken race. Why does he not prove his existence to me and then let me choose whether or not to worship him? Seems like a coward to me. [right][snapback]727396[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You are here, and you think. Think critically about your position. Try taking the position that there is a God. Call it an intellectual exercise.
Socrates Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:03 PM']You are here, and you think. Think critically about your position. Try taking the position that there is a God. Call it an intellectual exercise. [right][snapback]727430[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Intellectual exercise is too much punishment for a mindless troll to take.
avemaria40 Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) U never know, maybe he'll take u up on ur offer Edited September 17, 2005 by avemaria40
CatholicBoy Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) I wasn't aware that he was a "troll". I find that the majority of ppl who flame boards usually have pent up aggression and the only way they can expel them, is to upset the herd...while hiding behind a keyboard. Generally they don't have the physical capacity to actually resolves their issues, offline. Often they are the ones who are being pushed around & intimidated by others with more of a physical prowess. That being said, I should stop w/my diatribe. I don't want to be red flagged & banned off PhatMass for being "controversial". Edited September 17, 2005 by CatholicBoy
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:03 PM']You are here, and you think. Think critically about your position. Try taking the position that there is a God. Call it an intellectual exercise. [right][snapback]727430[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why should I credit my consciousness to your God? Who are you to tell me that you don't exist simply because I believe that you do? I'd love to believe in him, because that would make things so much easier, but the fact of the matter is that I am not a blind lemming.
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='CatholicBoy' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:09 PM']I wasn't aware that he was a "troll". I find that the majority of ppl who flame boards usually have pent up aggression and the only way they can expel them, is to upset the herd...while hiding behind a keyboard. Generally they don't have the physical capacity to actual resolves their issues, offline. Often they are the ones who are being pushed around & intimidated by others with more of a physical prowess. That being said, I should stop w/my diatribe. I don't want to be red flagged & banned off PhatMass for being "controversial". [right][snapback]727442[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Last time I was here, every time I would make baseless ad hominem attacks like this, I would get edited and my warning level would go up. This kid here, who would no doubt be dead terrified of throwing a punch to save his life, though...nothing will happen to him. Just watch,
Socrates Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='CatholicBoy' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:09 PM']I wasn't aware that he was a "troll". I find that the majority of ppl who flame boards usually have pent up aggresion and the only way they can expell them, is to upset the herd...while hiding behind a keyboard. Generally they don't have the physical capacity to actual resolves their issues, offline. Often they are the ones who are being pushed around & intimidated by others with more of a physical prowess. That being said, I should stop w/my diatribe. I don't want to be red flagged & banned off PhatMass for being "controversial". [right][snapback]727442[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He's repeatedly been on and off these boards over the years. He gets himself banned, then re-appears under a different account. It's all just childish crying for negative attention. (Your right, here these people feel free to insult whoever they like without having to actually physcially get their arses kicked).
toledo_jesus Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 17 2005, 06:10 PM']Why should I credit my consciousness to your God? Who are you to tell me that you don't exist simply because I believe that you do? I'd love to believe in him, because that would make things so much easier, but the fact of the matter is that I am not a blind lemming. [right][snapback]727444[/snapback][/right] [/quote] alright then, do this: Survive until you graduate high school, [b]go to college[/b] and take an introductory philosophy course.
CatholicBoy Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Chris of Zewe' date='Sep 17 2005, 06:12 PM']Last time I was here, every time I would make baseless ad hominem attacks like this, I would get edited and my warning level would go up. This kid here, who would no doubt be dead terrified of throwing a punch to save his life, though...nothing will happen to him. Just watch, [right][snapback]727447[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Kid?! lol, you, ok. If you were to be standing in my presence, you would defecate yourself & run. You're what, 17 and calling me a "Kid"?! Listen, I won't continue arguing with you because fighting over the internet never resolves anything. If you were to be standing in my face, it would all be resolved quickly. I've been on Phatmass for 2 years and have only really posted 12 times. You have been on here what, 24 hours or less? And already you've chalked up 68 posts!!! You seem to like to talk alot. No action. Ok, enough of this. I will ignore your text attacks on me & the board, lol. If anyone else wishes to continue arguing with this "Blind lemming" then it's your choice.
toledo_jesus Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='CatholicBoy' date='Sep 17 2005, 06:18 PM']Kid?! lol, you, ok. If you were to be standing in my presence, you would defecate yourself & run. You're what, 17 and calling me a "Kid"?! Listen, I won't continue arguing with you because fighting over the internet never resolves anything. If you were to be standing in my face, it would all be resolved quickly. I've been on Phatmass for 2 years and have only really posted 12 times. You have been on here what, 24 hours or less? And already you've chalked up 68 posts!!! You seem to like to talk alot. No action. Ok, enough of this. I will ignore your text attacks on me & the board, lol. If anyone else wishes to continue arguing with this "Blind lemming" then it's your choice. [right][snapback]727457[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I was gonna make a comment about bluster, but I just looked at your picture...
Myles Domini Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 My friend believe me I've been where you are. Only a couple of years ago I was enrolling in confirmation class at my local parish after a long exodus (I'm only 19 now). Its difficult to understand how the God of perfect love could allows us to go to Hell isn't it? It appears to be a logical contradiction but only if you're looking at it incorrectly. First my friend consider what we say God is for two moments: Perfect goodness, perfect love, perfect truth, so infinately perfect as to be beyond perfect. He is so perfectly being so as to defy being. Such a being is in and of Himself absolutely free, He is beyond wants, needs, He cannot suffer, He cannot lack, He is absolutely complete in an incomprehensible way. Absorb this for two moments then ponder the question: Why would an absolutely perfect being create anything if He already possesses in His own being absolute fullness and completion? The problem many people have is that they believe man was made to be some kind of glorified cheerleader. They see God as something akin to an Imperial majesty who created court jesters for Himself so that He could be amused and exercise His rule over someone/something. This is a fundamentally illogical conception of God for God would only need to act in such a way if He were in some way incomplete. If He could get bored or if He needed to be reminded of His glory by mere transient lifeforms. The real answer to this question is that God made us for the sake of love. So that we, human beings, could experience Him in His fullness. Have you ever thought about what it would be like to experience perfectly infinite love? Because thats what God offers. Not a love born out of psychological or biological urges but a love that is absolutely gratitutious and freely given. God wants you, me, everyone to have that, thats the only reason we exist. Our creation is a gift. God gives Himself so freely that when we were far from Him He even bridged the gap between us and Himself took on our nature and died for us to show His love. Indeed, the very ability to go to Hell shows forth God's love. God's law is an attempt to keep us from those things that we get attached to. The earthly trinkets that are here today and gone tommorow which can blind us from the infinate bliss God offers us in the freedom and fullness of His love. Yet if man does become attached to certain acquired bad habits aka vices God does not violate His freedom because true love can only be appreciated if its freely accepted. Instead, He allows us to freely reject His infinite love and spend our time doing other things which eventually consume us. As they say everyone has their drug and if you dont choose to serve God you end up serving mammon... ...even for eternity. This might sound good. But say your vice is sex. Then God would allow you to have sex for eternity. This to some people sounds good but think about it reasonably. You have sex once, twice, two thousand times, two million times, how many different ways can you have sex, how many things can you do to evade the boredom, the emotional lack of satisfaction, the descent into despair as each time causes you to fall further from your brief high into the darkness of an eternal low. As your addiction eats you up and you become more and more needy, more and more desperate to get back to the high. And even after a million years thats still the beginning. Yes, God in His love lets men do what they want. But what they want so often takes them to a place they really dont need to go.
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:13 PM']He's repeatedly been on and off these boards over the years. He gets himself banned, then re-appears under a different account. It's all just childish crying for negative attention. (Your right, here these people feel free to insult whoever they like without having to actually physcially get their arses kicked). [right][snapback]727449[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Years...? I came here for the first time less than a year ago. By all means, though, continue to make things up. (Psst...hey you. You're doing the same thing.) In regards to your sig...Christ was a socialist. Do explain. [i]alright then, do this: Survive until you graduate high school, go to college and take an introductory philosophy course.[/i] But I'm already well-enough versed in various fields of philosophy? [quote]Kid?! lol, you, ok. If you were to be standing in my presence, you would defecate yourself & run. You're what, 17 and calling me a "Kid"?! Listen, [b]I won't continue arguing with you because fighting over the internet never resolves anything[/b]. If you were to be standing in my face, it would all be resolved quickly. I've been on Phatmass for 2 years and have only really posted 12 times. You have been on here what, 24 hours or less? And already you've chalked up 68 posts!!! You seem to like to talk alot. No action. Ok, enough of this. I will ignore your text attacks on me & the board, lol. If anyone else wishes to continue arguing with this "Blind lemming" then it's your choice.[/quote] I go by mental age, not actual. You've proven to be nothing more than a middle school-level threat to my intellect at best, and in terms of physical strength, would you like to trade photographs? I'm not a bodybuilder or anything, but I'm not some rich homeschooled qwerty who grew up in a whitewashed suburb like you seem to be, so I actually know what I'm doing. In regards to the bolded text (and since we all seem to be so fond of internet stereotypes here), I will not respond to anything you say after it. As for the aforementioned stereotyping, you as good as said that you have no valid points and are not even [i]worth[/i] responding to. Farewell, kiddie.
CatholicBoy Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 lol@Toledo. Hey, I just looked at your profile. Your birthday is 2 days after mine. hehe. Mine is January 7th.
Chris of Zewe Posted September 17, 2005 Author Posted September 17, 2005 [quote name='Myles' date='Sep 17 2005, 05:25 PM']My friend believe me I've been where you are. Only a couple of years ago I was enrolling in confirmation class at my local parish after a long exodus (I'm only 19 now). Its difficult to understand how the God of perfect love could allows us to go to Hell isn't it? It appears to be a logical contradiction but only if you're looking at it incorrectly. First my friend consider what we say God is for two moments: Perfect goodness, perfect love, perfect truth, so infinately perfect as to be beyond perfect. He is so perfectly being so as to defy being. Such a being is in and of Himself absolutely free, He is beyond wants, needs, He cannot suffer, He cannot lack, He is absolutely complete in an incomprehensible way. Absorb this for two moments then ponder the question: Why would an absolutely perfect being create anything if He already possesses in His own being absolute fullness and completion? The problem many people have is that they believe man was made to be some kind of glorified cheerleader. They see God as something akin to an Imperial majesty who created court jesters for Himself so that He could be amused and exercise His rule over someone/something. This is a fundamentally illogical conception of God for God would only need to act in such a way if He were in some way incomplete. If He could get bored or if He needed to be reminded of His glory by mere transient lifeforms. The real answer to this question is that God made us for the sake of love. So that we, human beings, could experience Him in His fullness. Have you ever thought about what it would be like to experience perfectly infinite love? Because thats what God offers. Not a love born out of psychological or biological urges but a love that is absolutely gratitutious and freely given. God wants you, me, everyone to have that, thats the only reason we exist. Our creation is a gift. God gives Himself so freely that when we were far from Him He even bridged the gap between us and Himself took on our nature and died for us to show His love. Indeed, the very ability to go to Hell shows forth God's love. God's law is an attempt to keep us from those things that we get attached to. The earthly trinkets that are here today and gone tommorow which can blind us from the infinate bliss God offers us in the freedom and fullness of His love. Yet if man does become attached to certain acquired bad habits aka vices God does not violate His freedom because true love can only be appreciated if its freely accepted. Instead, He allows us to freely reject His infinite love and spend our time doing other things which eventually consume us. As they say everyone has their drug and if you dont choose to serve God you end up serving mammon... ...even for eternity. This might sound good. But say your vice is sex. Then God would allow you to have sex for eternity. This to some people sounds good but think about it reasonably. You have sex once, twice, two thousand times, two million times, how many different ways can you have sex, how many things can you do to evade the boredom, the emotional lack of satisfaction, the descent into despair as each time causes you to fall further from your brief high into the darkness of an eternal low. As your addiction eats you up and you become more and more needy, more and more desperate to get back to the high. And even after a million years thats still the beginning. Yes, God in His love lets men do what they want. But what they want so often takes them to a place they really dont need to go. [right][snapback]727471[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't have enough time to respond/analyze that right now (guitar lessons @ 7:15), but if I forget, please remind me to hit it later. From what I read, you worded that very well and seem to be incredibly intelligent, which surprises me, seeing as you're a Christian.
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