Medjugorje

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Thumper' date='Sep 18 2005, 10:04 AM']Then I think it's a good idea to look at the fruits of that miracle. 
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Very nice post.

I think some of the 'miracles' touted in the media lately are complete bunk (If you stand 200 yrds away and squint, that post looks exactly like the virgin Mary!), but I think there's some credibility to the miracles at Medjugorje. One of the most wonderful people I know went there, and had her rosary turn to gold & smell of roses. Does it make me worship *her*, or perhaps encourages & validates my faith in God?

Even true miracles can be worthless if they don't achieve their purpose, which is to turn people towards Him.

Those weeping paintings are a bit creepy, though....saw one in Illinois, I believe. The entire eyes were moist, and you could see where the 'tears' had run down the face of the painting. It was either legit, or someone had shellacked the thing...no way that you could have moistened it by hand & kept it that way the whole time.

[Dave]

A few people asked how Medjugorje could be non-supernatural or even satanic if there were so many people who were converted, healed, etc. there. It's like this -- Satan knows, just like the rest of us, that sometimes, in order to win the war, you have to lose a few battles. And so if he's using Medjugorje to dupe people, then having some souls saved is small compared to the many souls that would be damned because of it.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

I read the book about this a few years ago.

I am skeptical because of the way the book said the visionaries were acting.

At least the children at Fatima had a visible change in their lives and you can tell they were affected by what they saw.

From what I read, the visionaries cut up at Mass, wear clothes that shouldnt be worn at Mass and so forth.

Please, those that have been there, correct me on the kids who saw the Blessed Mother. Did they act like they were witnessing Her?

Also, is this still going on or has she stopped appearing?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

CatholicAndFanatical,
the "visions" are still going on... on a regularly scheduled basis with Ivan... this is much of the Medjugorje "hype" and why so many want to go. at least climbing up "apparition hill" is a penitential experience! lol. that was about all I got out of the apparition...


Dave,
I agree to an extent. And we also have to ask ourselves how many LASTING conversions have come out of Medjugorje? Not merely temporary "spiritual highs", but true and lasting conversions to the Lord apart from a temporary spurt in religious behavior.
I don't know that Medjugorje has necessarily been around long enough for us to judge any potential "true and lasting conversions", but neither I have I heard of any thus far claimed ones.

[jmjtina]

one known conversion was from Jim Cavieziel.

He spoke about it when he came to Corpus Christi.

[the_rev]

Having lived in Bosnia when I was a foreign exchange student, and living only 4 kilometers from Medjugorje and visiting that city for mass each week i thought overwell that it was a nice spiritual place. A getaway into a mountanaous place where you can just hink for the time your there. I know our team climbed Mt. Krushvek and Pobro hill. Medjugorje wasn't the focul point of my trip which the focal point was to study government and history over there. However I did get to go to a Drbrovnik football game (you know the sport you play iwth your foot) and my time living in Bosnia-Herzegovina was a memorable one. That's about it....

[Lounge Daddy]

these visits and messages from The Mother of God are evil - thats why are these people pray more, go to church, bleieve in the Mass, celebrate the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus ...
its a plot of those who dwell in Hell ...a failing plot... but maybe give it time... this is Satan making it up as he goes along

[Aloysius]

or it could be a plot of human origen... I still don't understand why they all had to renounce the visions and then say they were real again afterwards

I really don't think anything supernatural has gone on there (other than conversions which are always good and supernatural, but they happen everywhere and it wasn't because of an apparition)

also, there have been people with stigmatas for years who on their deathbeds admit to making deals with the devil because they wanted to be famous for their miracles. for all the years prior to that, devotees of such stigmatas would argue the same-- look it is making conversions et cetera et cetera. I believe that most recently happened with some sister in Japan or something...

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Sep 26 2005, 11:00 PM']thats why are these people pray more, go to church, bleieve in the Mass, celebrate the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus ... 

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Such has been the case of nearly every alleged apparition from Bayside to Necida to Garabandal. Does this prove them true? Not hardly.

[Jaime]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 26 2005, 10:09 PM']Such has been the case of nearly every alleged apparition from Bayside to Necida to Garabandal.  Does this prove them true?  Not hardly.
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Niether you or your articles can explain why I can still see

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 26 2005, 11:13 PM']Niether you or your articles can explain why I can still see
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Again, 'miraculous events' have occured at nearly every alleged apparition from Bayside to Necida to Garabandal. Does this prove them true or prove that they are from God? Not hardly.

[Jaime]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 27 2005, 07:00 AM']Again,  'miraculous events' have occured at nearly every alleged apparition from Bayside to Necida to Garabandal. Does this prove them true or prove that they are from God? Not hardly.
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My experience is first hand. Its not in "quotes". It happened. Does it prove that its from God? Maybe not. But it certainly is strong evidence. And you cannot explain it otherwise.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 26 2005, 11:13 PM']Niether you or your articles can explain why I can still see
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God is not the only one capable of manipulating nature...


Perhaps there is no explanation for it, but that does not automatically deem it supernatural. Have you reported it to the Bishop or your spiritual director as a miracle? Or Ivan? I'm sure there are several who would love to list some miraculous events as "evidence" of Medjugorje's legitimacy...

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Sep 26 2005, 10:28 PM']one known conversion was from Jim Cavieziel.

He spoke about it when he came to Corpus Christi.
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How "lasting" has it been?? I don't think we are capable yet of examing the fruits of Medjugorje's conversions.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 27 2005, 07:52 AM']How "lasting" has it been?? I don't think we are capable yet of examing the fruits of Medjugorje's conversions.
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My far less famous (but no less important) father's conversion was a direct result of Medjugorje. It's been almost 20 years now and I can assure you that his participation in the Church is stronger every day.

There are three things that will not change in the near future in regards to the visions and miracles in Medjugorje.

1. Some will be a witness to it and believe

2. Some will be afraid of what is happening, denounce the fruits of it and call it the work of the devil

3. Some will try to manipulate what is happening there to their own end.


The visionaries have promised that the secrets will be revealed in their (our) lifetime. Which means sometime in the near future, we will know for certain whether it is a fraud or authentic.

Honestly I don't know what all the griping is about. Every message that is reported revolves around a central them of prayer fasting and reconciliation. The messages are calling people back to orthodox and humble living.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]CatholicAndFanatical,
the "visions" are still going on... on a regularly scheduled basis with Ivan... this is much of the Medjugorje "hype" and why so many want to go. at least climbing up "apparition hill" is a penitential experience! lol. that was about all I got out of the apparition...
[/quote]

Ah ok, well this explains why the Vatican hasnt issued an official say on it.

I'll have to do some research on it, hopefully there is a site with updated current information about the apparition.

Whats the messages being given to the people?

How does it compare to what was said at Fatima?

At least at Fatima it was for a short time and important things were being said and shown.

What could the Blessed Mother [b]possibly[/b] be saying all these years that are significant? Isnt this the longest running apparition?

My point being that if history shows us anything, its that the Blessed Mother has always kept it short and sweet, and meaningful.

But then again, I respond without really researching it yet..which im doing now.

[homeschoolmom]

I'm skeptical of all apparitions... but I'm just a rather skeptical person...

[Jaime]

[quote]What could the Blessed Mother possibly be saying all these years that are significant?[/quote]

You're kidding right?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 27 2005, 09:07 AM']  There are three things that will not change in the near future in regards to the visions and miracles in Medjugorje.

1.  Some will be a witness to it and believe

2.  Some will be afraid of what is happening, denounce the fruits of it and call it the work of the devil

3.  Some will try to manipulate what is happening there to their own end.
The visionaries have promised that the secrets will be revealed in their (our) lifetime.  Which means sometime in the near future, we will know for certain whether it is a fraud or authentic. 

Honestly I don't know what all the griping is about.  Every message that is reported revolves around a central them of prayer fasting and reconciliation.  The messages are calling people back to orthodox and humble living.
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What of all the disobedience and other "scandals" that surround Medjugorje? You don't hear too many disobedience problems with the other apparitions.

One of messages of Medjugorje was that "all religions are equal"... There are questionable messages hidden under the guise of previous messages from legitimate Marian apparitions. Medjugorje is all show and spectacle.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 27 2005, 10:01 AM']You're kidding right?
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Actually no im not kidding.

When the Blessed Mother appeared at Fatima she warned us of the future, showing the visionaries what to expect and telling them what to do. It lasted only a short time, but there was a major purpose and there was a theme to her messages.

if what Fides said was right, that all religions are equal, then we gotta problem.

At Fatima the Blessed Mother was leading up to something, something big..what is that 'something' at Medjugorje? It doesnt seem like its leading anywhere, just her appearing and saying things..but what things?

I read in that book a few years ago that one of her messages were to take 2 hours to say the Our Father. I understand you have to meditate on the Our Father when saying it, but 2 hours? It just doesnt seem plausable.