Medjugorje

[God Conquers]

I think the situation is much more complicated than what any unobjective source (like that book) could outline.

I've bounced back and forth so many times it's ridiculous.

The book doesn't really strive to see both sides, and doesn't look much deeper than the beginning of the apparitions, when in fact, the tensions between diocesan and franciscan priests in the former Yugoslavia are incredibly deep and go back almost 100 years.

Until the turn of the century, there were no diocesan priests in Herzegovina.

Why? Because the country was ruled by the Ottoman Empire... who wasn't too keen on having Western Bishops in its officially Muslim country.

However, in the 13th century St. Francis made friends with the Supreme Caliph, who allowed Franciscan priests to minister to the people.

So we have 700 years of loyalty to Franciscans by the people, and 100 years of the diocese trying to convince people to come to their parishes (rightly so).

I think we can see that there is more to the situation, especially when one of the main arguments used is "obedience".

[God Conquers]

And what's with the "fire all over your body" stuff? Holy moly, that's a might premature/reactionary don't you think?

I'm also pretty sure we're all familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Faith, so catechesis is not necessary.

Unless of course, you need some on the eternal nature of Hell... which of course you would NEVER be released from.... unlike purgatory where you would be released after you had paid that "last penny".

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Oct 1 2005, 12:20 AM']and i agree with your first point, for sure

and, dspen2005...    welcome to the Catholic debate table
what is brought here and the positions stated here do not reflect the offial Phatmass point-of-view necessarily  ...      this is where we place our personal opinions on the table
this is also where we have an opportunity to see other views and maybe tweek our opinion, shift our world-view and grow as Catholic people
sometimes i like to smoke a cigar after Phatmass
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i see your point. i had forgotten, or overlooked, that this was a "debate" table....

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='God Conquers' date='Oct 2 2005, 01:40 PM']I think the situation is much more complicated than what any unobjective source (like that book) could outline.


The book doesn't really strive to see both sides, and doesn't look much deeper than the beginning of the apparitions, when in fact, the tensions between diocesan and franciscan priests in the former Yugoslavia are incredibly deep and go back almost 100 years.


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The book is mostly a collection of documents pertaining to the alleged apparitions. It is quite objective. Objectivity does not demand that one refuse to take a side in a debate.

[quote]
Until the turn of the century, there were no diocesan  priests in Herzegovina.

Why? Because the country was ruled by the Ottoman Empire... who wasn't too keen on having Western Bishops in its officially Muslim country.

However, in the 13th century St. Francis made friends with the Supreme Caliph, who allowed Franciscan priests to minister to the people.

So we have 700 years of loyalty to Franciscans by the people, and 100 years of the diocese trying to convince people to come to their parishes (rightly so).

I think we can see that there is more to the situation, especially when one of the main arguments used is "obedience".[/quote]

What does this have to do with the current discusion? The debate is over the legitimacy of this alleged apparition.

[God Conquers]

Sorry,

I was reading through that online book and it said "I can't think of a reason why almost all diocesan clergy would be against the apparitions."

That's a big one: jealosy.

True or not, it's a reason.

Also, the history of a diocese, especially the relationship between "regular" clergy and religious orders of priests, has a HUGE impact on any claims of disobedience and counter claims of unfair treatment.