Soldiers spooked by New Orleans spirits

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Sep 25 2005, 12:28 AM']Ok.........Im trying to respect your opinion..........allthough i have seen things (maybe you havent) that suggest otherwise..........but may only be a figment of the imagination. But i have no official stance(personally).
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no, I haven't seen anything like a ghost. Any spooky phenomenon I ever encountered was usually explained by daylight or by reading a book.

Hey, I'd LIKE to see something like this...but I won't, cause they ain't real.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 24 2005, 11:31 PM']no, I haven't seen anything like a ghost.  Any spooky phenomenon I ever encountered was usually explained by daylight or by reading a book. 

Hey, I'd LIKE to see something like this...but I won't, cause they ain't real.
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You could apply this logic to god.............people have claimed they have met god.......what do you think?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Sep 25 2005, 12:34 AM']You could apply this logic to god.............people have claimed they have met god.......what do you think?
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There is no reason to believe in ghosts. They serve no purpose.

God is different, as He is the answer to the unanswerable questions.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 24 2005, 11:48 PM']There is no reason to believe in ghosts.  They serve no purpose.

God is different, as He is the answer to the unanswerable questions.
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I really feel like this is turning into a debate........but anyways, how do you know that ghosts serve no purpose? i dont think you do.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Sep 25 2005, 12:52 AM']I really feel like this is turning into a debate........but anyways, how do you know that ghosts serve no purpose? i dont think you do.
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can you think of a purpose for them? I can't.

We have purgatory for those who aren't ready for Heaven, and Hell for those who choose it. Why would anyone be wandering around haunting places? I've already conceded that ghosts could be instances of demonic powers, but if we're talking about Casper or the whole unfinished business nonsense then no, there's no such thing.

I did find this, so apparently the Church acknowledges disembodied spirits that are sent by God to warn, instruct or seek favors of the living.


[quote]
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Ghosts, Hauntings and Things That Go Bump in the Night
10/29/04

Dear Catholic Exchange:

What is the Church's teaching concerning ghosts, hauntings and the like?

Joshua Villalobos

Dear Joshua,

Peace in Christ!

The Church believes that ghosts, or spirits, do exist. There are times when spirits appear to our benefit, but we are warned against attempting to contact spirits.

“Ghost” is simply another word for “spirit” (geist means “spirit” in German). Spirit is of three kinds: the human spirit which combined with body make up a human being; the defined spirit that has no body, such as angels; and the infinite Spirit, or God, of Whom the Third Person is the Holy Ghost. When someone asks whether ghosts exist, he usually has in mind the first kind, a human spirit. Hence Fr. John Hardon defines “ghost” as “...a disembodied spirit. Christianity believes that God may, and sometimes does, permit a departed soul to appear in some visible form to people on earth. Allowing for legend and illusion, there is enough authentic evidence, for example in the lives of the saints, to indicate that such apparitions occur. Their purpose may be to teach or warn, or request some favor of the living” (Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., Modern Catholic Dictionary, Garden City, New York: 1980. Published by Doubleday and Co., p. 229).

The last sentence of Fr. Hardon’s definition implicitly gives the Church’s teaching on ghosts. Appearances of ghosts are understood with regard to our salvation. Ghosts can come to us for good, but we must not attempt to conjure or control spirits. The Church teaches that “spiritism,” seeking recourse or power from ghosts, is contrary to the virtue of religion (i.e., the Commandment “You shall have no other gods before Me”):

“All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others — even if this were for the sake of restoring their health — are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 2117).

Thus, while the Church recognizes the existence of ghosts, we are not to intentionally seek them out — for good or for ill.

Please feel free to call us at 1-800-MY FAITH with any further questions on this or any other subject. If you have found this information to be helpful, please consider a donation to CUF to help sustain this service. You can call the toll-free line, visit us at
www.cuf.org, or send your contribution to the address below. Thank you for your support as we endeavor to “support, defend, and advance the efforts of the teaching Church.”

United in the Faith,

Amy Barragree
Information Specialist
Catholics United for the Faith
827 North Fourth Street
Steubenville, OH 43952[/quote]

[infinitelord1]

the news station that reported this is from california.......lol. Revelations 10 says nothing like they were making it out to be.

[StColette]

This thread reminds me of a thread that occured in the Apologetics Board some time ago. Philippe, I believe was the one who asked the question of "do Ghosts exist?"

What Are Ghosts?
-- from "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven", by Dr. Peter Kreeft (Ignatius Press, 1990).

"Without our action or invitation, the dead often do appear to the living. There is enormous evidence of 'ghosts' in all cultures .... We can distinguish three kinds of ghosts, I believe. First, the most familiar kind: the sad ones, the wispy ones. They seem to be working out some unfinished earthly business, or suffering some purgatorial purification until released from their earthly business. These ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it to Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past life on earth."

"Second, there are malicious and deceptive spirits - and since they are_deceptive, they hardly ever appear malicious. These are probably the ones who respond to conjurings at seances. They probably come from Hell. Even the chance_of that happening should be sufficient to terrify away all temptations to necromancy."

"Third, there are bright, happy spirits of dead friends and family, especially spouses, who appear unbidden, at God's will, not ours, with messages of hope and love. They seem to come from Heaven. Unlike the purgatorial ghosts who come back primarily for their own sakes, these bright spirits come back for the sake of us the living, to tell us all is well. They are aped by evil spirits who say the same, who speak 'peace, peace, when there is no peace'. But the deception works only one way: the fake can deceive by appearing genuine, but the genuine never deceives by appearing fake. Heavenly spirits always convince us that they are genuinely good. Even the bright spirits appear ghostlike to us because a ghost of any type is one whose substance does not belong in or come from this world. In Heaven these spirits are not ghosts but real, solid and substantial because they are at home there: One can't be a ghost in one's own country."

"That there are all three kinds of ghosts is enormously likely. Even taking into account our penchant to deceive and be deceived, our credulity and fakery, there remain so many trustworthy accounts of all three types of ghosts - trustworthy by every ordinary empirical and psychological standard - that only a dogmatic prejudice against them could prevent us from believing they exist. As Chesterton says, 'We believe an old apple woman when she says she ate an apple; but when she says she saw a ghost, we say 'But she's only an old apple woman.' A most undemocratic and unscientific prejudice."

-- from "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven", by Dr. Peter Kreeft (Ignatius Press, 1990)

Biblical passage

3 Now Samuel had died and, after being mourned by all Israel, was buried in his city, Ramah. Meanwhile Saul had driven mediums and fortune-tellers out of the land.
4 The Philistine levies advanced to Shunem and encamped. Saul, too, mustered all Israel; they camped on Gilboa.
5 When Saul saw the camp of the Philistines, he was dismayed and lost heart completely.
6 He therefore consulted the LORD; but the LORD gave no answer, whether in dreams or by the Urim or through prophets.
7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, to whom I can go to seek counsel through her." His servants answered him, "There is a woman in Endor who is a medium."
8 So he disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and set out with two companions. They came to the woman by night, and Saul said to her, "Tell my fortune through a ghost; conjure up for me the one I ask you to."
9 But the woman answered him, "You are surely aware of what Saul has done, in driving the mediums and fortune-tellers out of the land. Why, then, are you laying snares for my life, to have me killed?"
10 But Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As the LORD lives, you shall incur no blame for this."
11 Then the woman asked him, "Whom do you want me to conjure up?" and he answered, "Samuel."
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she shrieked at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
13 But the king said to her, "Have no fear. What do you see?" The woman answered Saul, "I see a preternatural being rising from the earth."
14 "What does he look like?" asked Saul. And she replied, "It is an old man who is rising, clothed in a mantle." Saul knew that it was Samuel, and so he bowed face to the ground in homage.
15 Samuel then said to Saul, "Why do you disturb me by conjuring me up?" Saul replied: "I am in great straits, for the Philistines are waging war against me and God has abandoned me. Since he no longer answers me through prophets or in dreams, I have called you to tell me what I should do."

[12] Human beings cannot communicate at will with the souls of the dead. God may, however, permit a departed soul to appear to the living and even to disclose things unknown to them. Saul's own prohibition of necromancy and divination (1 Sam 28:3) was in keeping with the consistent teaching of the Old Testament. If we are to credit the reality of the apparition to Saul, it was due, not to the summons of the witch, but to God's will; the woman merely furnished the occasion.

Topic: Ghosts & Catholicism

Question:

The following question arose during a discussion at a faith study group of which I am a participant. I am hopeful you will be able to shed some light on the matter. The question: What exactly is the Church's teaching on the existence of ghosts? Firstly, do they exist? If so, what exactly are they? Disembodied souls that...??? My understanding is that they do not exist. A disembodied soul is either in Heaven, on it's way there (Purgatory) or that other place. I'm reminded of St. Paul's statement in 2 Corinthians 5 when he says that being away from the body is being at home with the Lord. Therefore, my gut feel is that it doesn't jive with Catholic theology to say that ghosts exist. I could very well be dead wrong is saying that but that is the very reason I'm sending you the question, to set me straight in my understanding of the topic.

Answer:

Your "gut feel" is quite right. According to the Council of Florence's Decree "Laetentur caeli" (6 July 1439), the souls of those who have been purified from all sin (either in this life or in Purgatory) are immediately (mox) received into heaven and enjoy the clear vision of the triune God (DS 1305), which makes them perfectly happy. As for the souls in Purgatory, the tradition of the Church affirms that they experience a "cleansing fire," which is meant to prepare them for entry into heaven (cf. CCC, par. 1031). The idea of disembodied spirits wandering about the earth--for the purpose of visiting their loved ones, of seeking worldly retribution for the injustices they suffered, etc.--is incompatible with the Christian faith, which affirms that God is the ultimate end of man, such that the faithful departed desire only to be united with him, + have no concern for earthly joys or worldly retribution.

Any paranormal phenomena which allegedly support the existence of "ghosts" should be treated with a healthly dose of scepticism by Christians (+ indeed, by any thinking person). It is not impossible that some of these incidents may be caused by evil spirits, the existence of which is affirmed by the Christian faith. Finally, it should be remembered that the Church condemns all forms of divination and spiritism (CCC, par. 2116-2117).

Father Pierre Ingram
August 21, 2001

[url="http://www.catholic-legate.com/qa/ghosts.html"]http://www.catholic-legate.com/qa/ghosts.html[/url]

By the time of the Jesuit theologians Francisco Suarez (1548-1617) and St. Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621), it became popular among the laity to request prayers from the souls in purgatory. And by the time of the eighteenth century, St. Alphonsus Liguori (1696-1787) is teaching that the Church does not officially pray to them because it is not known if they hear us or not but a Catholic can piously believe that "God makes our prayers known to them."16 Thomas in this context had taught that since the blessed see the Word, he can give them ideas about what is going on in the world but those in purgatory do not see the Word "by which they are able to know what we think or say."17 So it follows that "we do not implore their assistance by prayer. . . ." But, using Thomas's other principles, it is not contradictory for God to give infused ideas to souls in purgatory if he chooses just as it is possible for God to permit a soul in purgatory to appear before others on earth to entreat them for prayers and Masses to be said for them.18


[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1210"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1210[/url]

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That should be enough to keep yall reading for a while

God Bless,
Jen

[Lounge Daddy]

[url="http://www.crisismagazine.com/november2003/hoopes.htm"] The Dark Backward: Demons in the Real World[/url]
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