Could God make a rock...

[Brother Adam]

Well? Speculate. :

[philothea]

:

[Aloysius]

it's basically like asking if God could do anything He wouldn't be God

you form a paradox off of the statement "nothing is impossible with God"

if something were impossible for God, He wouldn't be God. therefore there would be no question to ask in the first place.

If God made a rock that He coildn't lift, He would be making something that He couldn't do and thus something would be impossible for Him.

the only way for nothing to be impossible for Him is for it to be impossible for Him to make something impossible for Him

short answer, He can't go against his own nature

[Brother Adam]

Someone said no. Are you doubting the omnipotence of God?

[Aloysius]

that was me. se my answer above. If He made something impossible for Him, He wouldn't be omnipotent. so to say He can't do it is to AFFIRM his omnipotence. to say He could do it is to NEGATE his omnipotence.

[Didacus]

He can.

He won't.

It would mean giving up the power to lift the rock, therefore denying Himself which He simply will not do.

[scardella]

*brain runs in circles*

[quote]This statement is a lie.[/quote]

GAAAH!

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Nov 9 2005, 01:08 PM']He can.

He won't.

It would mean giving up the power to lift the rock, therefore denying Himself which He simply will not do.
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[/quote]
no, He can't. to do so would be to make Himself not omnipotent

[philothea]

[quote name='scardella' date='Nov 9 2005, 12:13 PM']*brain runs in circles*
[quote]This statement is a lie.
[/quote]
GAAAH!
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[/quote]





See, I said the right answer was !


Brother Adam is naughty.

[Aloysius]

If God could do that, He wouldn't be omnipotent

[MichaelFilo]

Silly question, lets look at some philosophy when logic fails to give the appropriate answer.

A rock is material, that is it has substance. According to a great many philosophers material has dimmensions. That is, material exists in a space; today we see it as having height, length, and depth.

According to Aquinas, God is pure Form (or Spirit). Only in the Incarnation does the Son get a body. Now, a form has no dimension, so how could it possibly be compared to that of something with dimensions. That is, we know God has influence over material thins, but since he is everywhere, and everywhere cannot be understood in the dimensions we know since God has no dimensions, then God cannot make a rock larger than Himself, not because of an inability of God, but because thta which has no dimension cannot be compared to that which has dimension. Infinity cannot be compared to the number 5 (for the mathematicians out there). Equally so, God cannot be compared to a rock.

God bless,
Mikey

[Didacus]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 9 2005, 12:16 PM']no, He can't.  to do so would be to make Himself not omnipotent
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[/quote]

He is omnipotent, thus He can, but to do so would be to make Himself not omnipotent which He will not.

[Semalsia]

Well there you have it. Brother Adam has proved that there is no God.


*runs away*

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Nov 9 2005, 04:48 PM']He is omnipotent, thus He can, but to do so would be to make Himself not omnipotent which He will not.
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if He COULD make something that He COULDN't do, then He wouldn't be omnipotent.Thus, the only wway to affirm His omnipotence is to say He cannot do this. It would be doing something contrary to His own nature.

Do you think that God's omnipotence means that He has the power to not be God?

[qfnol31]

Would this be a proper use of His Free Will to do so?

If it's not, then it means He's going against His nature and has become a slave.

To be ultimately free, He must use His free will in accord with the Good (His nature).

[DAF]

Would saying "God is omnipitently good" be the right thing to say? I mean...he can't do things contrary to his nature, that being goodness...therefore, is He not omnipitent?

[qfnol31]

Is not a lack of omnipotence, but a higher form of freedom.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 9 2005, 05:13 PM']if He COULD make something that He COULDN't do, then He wouldn't be omnipotent.Thus, the only wway to affirm His omnipotence is to say He cannot do this.  It would be doing something contrary to His own nature.

Do you think that God's omnipotence means that He has the power to not be God?
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[/quote]


OK, let me put it this way then.

It is within His power to do such a thing.

His nature is perfect, and thus he would not. By this nature, which is perfect, it is impossible that God would eventually do such a thing.



Thus in the first sense, it is possible, since He is all powerful. In the second, though the first circumstance exsits, it is pushed aside by the second (His perfect nature) which pushes the possibility infinately asidce - hence making it impossible.

[Aloysius]

is it within God's power to make Himself not God? I say it is not within His power.

[MichaelFilo]

I think my post has been ignored again possibly because it is a bit too complicated. So, I shall state it again, hopefully more simply.

God is not material; He has no demensions to constrain Him.
A rock is material; it has demensions to constrain it.

Something lacking demension, by it's nature, cannot have anything that is matter compared to it. That is, God has no material body, so his ability to do something does not truely have any limits. Therefore, a rock shall always be infinetly smaller than God, and therefore God cannot make a rock large enough that He cannot carry it, because matter and form are different and cannot be compared. Much like apples and oranges.

God bless,
Mikey