do protestants understand salvation to the fullest

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:16 PM']Well I'm from a non-denominational type Protestant church. My understanding (limited) of this Church is that you have to believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior and publically profess him as your Lord in Baptism. After that point, you are NOT beyond losing that salvation. However, you ARE a saint in God's eyes. When we sin it is the exception, not the rule. We are no longer seen by God as sinful, terrible creatures, though that is our nature. He has filled us with His Spirit and when we sin, it's that nature creeping back in. We still can obviously turn our back on God or allow sin to get in the way of our relationship and never truly let him be Lord of our hearts. This is my understanding of our Church's stance and what I believe.

I also believe that while it IS faith alone, from a certain point of view, that saves us, faith MUST lead to works or it is obviously not present. Anyone who says they have faith but never displays the Love and Charity of Christ outwardly is someone whose faith I would question. I believe that authentic faith will naturally be accompanied by works. It's a sort of package deal. The idea is that I believe in God and that belief, fear and awe make me his servant. I try to do what he asks of me, though my human nature interferes and I still sin and fall short of his glory on a daily basis. However,  though I turn my back on Him with some actions, my heart is always with Him. When I do something wrong, I feel the need to be cleansed and ask for forgiveness, confessing what I have done wrong. I believe sin could be mortal in that it could seperate You from God and lead you to forsake Him or (even worse, in my opinion) claim Christianity but not live it out.

From my understanding, this is basically what the Catholic Church  believes. It is also my understanding that the Catholic Church believes that Protestants are not outside salvation, but that perhaps we do not have as in-depth and accurate a view of God as they  do. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the general idea as I understand it.
[right][snapback]844527[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Perhaps this is a misunderstanding in my own thinking, but how can you be saved (via vis justification by faith ALONE) if you also admit man must show good works to be saved. Seems to be contradictory to me.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 3 2006, 11:16 AM']Well I'm from a non-denominational type Protestant church. My understanding (limited) of this Church is that you have to believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior and publically profess him as your Lord in Baptism. After that point, you are NOT beyond losing that salvation. However, you ARE a saint in God's eyes. When we sin it is the exception, not the rule. We are no longer seen by God as sinful, terrible creatures, though that is our nature. He has filled us with His Spirit and when we sin, it's that nature creeping back in. We still can obviously turn our back on God or allow sin to get in the way of our relationship and never truly let him be Lord of our hearts. This is my understanding of our Church's stance and what I believe.

I also believe that while it IS faith alone, from a certain point of view, that saves us, faith MUST lead to works or it is obviously not present. Anyone who says they have faith but never displays the Love and Charity of Christ outwardly is someone whose faith I would question. I believe that authentic faith will naturally be accompanied by works. It's a sort of package deal. The idea is that I believe in God and that belief, fear and awe make me his servant. I try to do what he asks of me, though my human nature interferes and I still sin and fall short of his glory on a daily basis. However,  though I turn my back on Him with some actions, my heart is always with Him. When I do something wrong, I feel the need to be cleansed and ask for forgiveness, confessing what I have done wrong. I believe sin could be mortal in that it could seperate You from God and lead you to forsake Him or (even worse, in my opinion) claim Christianity but not live it out.

From my understanding, this is basically what the Catholic Church  believes. It is also my understanding that the Catholic Church believes that Protestants are not outside salvation, but that perhaps we do not have as in-depth and accurate a view of God as they  do. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the general idea as I understand it.
[right][snapback]844527[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
most of the christians i know are protestants. Calvinists to be exact. They judge people........look down on them. Ive also heard them say that good works follows naturally after being saved. Of course they claim to be saved. I see them as bigots and hippocrits. I see the way they act.......i dont see as close as a relationship with christ as i would in a catholic. I also hear a lot of protestants bashing gay people. I have never heard a catholic do that. Its one thing to bash gays and its a different thing to disagree with that lifestyle. I see the protestants that i know as being unaware of the things they do as being wrong. Thats another reason why i question if they understand salvation to the fullest. What i say here is based on my personal experience with protestants. I am not saying at all that they are all like this.

[Diamond]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jan 3 2006, 02:15 PM']
Perhaps this is a misunderstanding in my own thinking, but how can you be saved (via vis justification by faith ALONE) if you also admit man must show good works to be saved. Seems to be contradictory to me.
[right][snapback]844620[/snapback][/right]
[/quote}

The important thing, I think, is for that faith to be genuine. REAL, honest faith in Jesus as your Savior will change Your lifestyle and lead to good works. Simply, I believe it's a package deal. Faith brings about works. In this way, TRUE faith brings about salvation, but faith without works is still dead. Both statements are obviously true because they are Scripture. This is how both are true when they seem contradictory at first glance. We are saved by (true) faith alone. Not we are saved by believing alone or anything ridiculous like that.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 3 2006, 10:04 PM']The important thing, I think, is for that faith to be genuine. REAL, honest faith in Jesus as your Savior will change Your lifestyle and lead to good works. Simply, I believe it's a package deal. Faith brings about works. In this way, TRUE faith brings about salvation, but faith without works is still dead. Both statements are obviously true because they are Scripture. This is how both are true when they seem contradictory at first glance. We are saved by (true) faith alone. Not we are saved by believing alone or anything ridiculous like that.
[right][snapback]845125[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Perhaps it is coming down to the words we use then (typically I think this is the case). If we misunderstand words, we may misunderstand what God is calling us to.

Faith saves because of what faith is. Real faith is not comprised of a single prayer of belief in Christ as the Savior (Fundamental Protestantism). Faith in Christ comprises of trust in all Christ did and taught, and therefore in obedience to Him and to those whom He gave authority to. Faith is saving when faith is obedient (Romans 1:5). If we are to believe in the Son of God and have faith in Him, then we will be obedient to Him. Faith is proved, and we are justified, as Abraham was justified by faith - whether or not we are obedient to God by cooperating with the grace of God through our faith. Salvation is not by "faith alone" (heretical Protestantism) or by "faith + works" (heretical Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism), salvation rather is how the Bible says - covenantal, and as such is outside being confined to formula.

I'll stop there so I don't get too long winded.

Blessings,
Adam

[Dave]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Dec 31 2005, 05:29 PM']you know maybe chewing tobacco isnt a mortal sin. I think what makes it a mortal sin (if it is) if you know it is wrong but you continue to do it.
[right][snapback]842041[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Not quite. It's true that mortal sin is when you know something is wrong but do it anyway. But venial sin can also be deliberate. It's not enough to determine whether a certain action is a mortal sin simply by whether or not it's deliberate. One must also take into account whether or not it involves grave matter.

[Diamond]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Jan 4 2006, 12:34 PM']Perhaps it is coming down to the words we use then (typically I think this is the case). If we misunderstand words, we may misunderstand what God is calling us to.

Faith saves because of what faith is. Real faith is not comprised of a single prayer of belief in Christ as the Savior (Fundamental Protestantism). Faith in Christ comprises of trust in all Christ did and taught, and therefore in obedience to Him and to those whom He gave authority to. Faith is saving when faith is obedient (Romans 1:5). If we are to believe in the Son of God and have faith in Him, then we will be obedient to Him. Faith is proved, and we are justified, as Abraham was justified by faith - whether or not we are obedient to God by cooperating with the grace of God through our faith. Salvation is not by "faith alone" (heretical Protestantism) or by "faith + works" (heretical Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism), salvation rather is how the Bible says - covenantal, and as such is outside being confined to formula.

I'll stop there so I don't get too long winded.

Blessings,
Adam
[right][snapback]845698[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I definitely agree. Your explanation was much more well-put, however. Thank you.