The Jews

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[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 26 2006, 07:29 AM']The Talmud is a racist book made by man and not by God.
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have you actually read the whole thing, or are you just saying what others have said to you?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Hello everyone,

The reason I focus on Judiasm is because of the Old covenant. there was no covenent with the Mohamedans. I have no ill will towards Jews, only the relegion of Judiasm. I have Distaste for the Talmud because it is inherntly Racist and Anti-Christian.

[quote]Erubin 21b: "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah"[/quote]

here we see that the Talmud is put above the Torah

[quote]Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus was executed because he practiced sorcery.

Gittin 57a. Jesus is boiling in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu [i.e., Jesus. Spelling His name as "Yeshu" means "May His Name Be Blotted Out"] was hanged.Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not an enticer (Mesith)?"

Sanhedrin 106a. Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."

Footnote to Shabbath 104b. Jesus' mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.[/quote]


[quote]Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed, hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old."

Sanhedrin 57a. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty, and what a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.

Yebamoth 98a. Gentiles, "whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses," have children who are legally fatherless.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b. Gentiles can't be trusted with cows because they do immoral things with them, and they sexually prefer the cattle of Israelites to their own wives.

Shabbath 116a. Jews should destroy Christian books [ironically].

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed (Tob shebe goyyim harog).

Yebamoth 63a. Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Baba Mezia 59b. God admits a rabbi won a debate against Him.[/quote]
I have nothing against the Jews. But to say that the covenant between God and the Jews still exists is wrong. And to say that all their relegion lacks is the messiah is also wrong. I just Hope and Pray for the conversion of all.


God Bless,

Sam

[Nathan]

We could use a Jewish apologist in this thread!

[catholicinsd]

Shalom Everybody!!

[Aloysius]

[url="http://talmud.faithweb.com/"]http://talmud.faithweb.com/[/url]

it appears the pedophile charges are twisted out of rules regarding dowries, the references to Jesus are often references to Balaam, and a lot of it is misinformation...

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

it seems that i have no idea which site to believe.

[Aloysius]

yeah I'm not sure either. I couldn't find an online english version.. and as much as I really wish I knew everything in the universe, alas I am no expert on the hebrew or aramaic languages

but a lot of the explanations offered at the "The Real Truth About The Talmud" site seem to make a lot of sense, and historically I don't believe the Jews have been known to actually practice these sorts of things or teach these sorts of things

I think I am thouroughly convinced the pedophilia and imorality charges are without merit. I am not exactly sure either way on the racist charges (it would certainly be understandable for a race suffering so much persecution from other races to lash out at them) or the anti-Jesus charges (The Council of Jamnia forming rabbinical judaism has always seemed to me more of an anti-Christian council than a pro-Judaism one, so it wouldn't surprise me)

But then again, who knows, if the word is actually Balaam, then that refers to a demon... i think the claim on the other side is that it's supposed to be a "code-word", which doesn't sound too credible without hard-core evidence...

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[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 26 2006, 05:30 PM']Hello everyone,

The reason I focus on Judiasm is because of the Old covenant. there was no covenent with the Mohamedans. I have no ill will towards Jews, only the relegion of Judiasm. I have Distaste for the Talmud because it is inherntly Racist and Anti-Christian.
here we see that the Talmud is put above the Torah
I have nothing against the Jews. But to say that the covenant between  God and the Jews still exists is wrong. And to say that all their relegion lacks is the messiah is also wrong. I just Hope and Pray for the conversion of all.
God Bless,

Sam
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are these quotes that you posted earlier in the thread from your own personal reading of the Talmud, or stuff you found on a website somewhere?

[Mercy me]

The answer to your question as to how we understand the Jews can be found in the following excerpt:

The people of Israel have been liberated many times from the hands of their enemies and, in times of anti-Semitism, in the dramatic moments of the Shoah, the hand of the Almighty guided and sustained them. The favor of the God of the Covenant has always accompanied them, giving them the strength to overcome trials. Your Jewish community, present in the city of Rome for more than 2,000 years, can also bear witness to this divine loving attention.

The Catholic Church is close to you and is your friend. Yes, we love you and cannot but love you, "through the Fathers": Because of them you are very dear to us and favorite brothers (cf. Romans 11:28b). Following the Second Vatican Council the reciprocal esteem and trust between us has increased. Ever more fraternal and cordial contacts have developed, becoming even more intense during the pontificate of my venerated predecessor, John Paul II.


The link for the complete text is here: [url="http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=2918"]B16's address 17 Jan. 2006[/url]

[son_of_angels]

Nonetheless, I remember hearing about a priest who was ousted for "denying the salvific nature of the Old Covenant." That seems to me a whole lot like Pelagianism....

[Ora et Labora]

I have heard the Jews are becoming less Religious nowadays...is that true?

That would be a real pity. Their not Catholic...but, I was always interested in their religion.

[philothea]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Jan 29 2006, 05:02 PM']I have heard the Jews are becoming less Religious nowadays...is that true?
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Yes, this is true. Most Jews in Israel are secular (non-religious) Jews. The actual proportion is hard to determine. I've heard they're 60%-90% atheist.

After reading this topic I started doing some research on the Talmud. It's very interesting, and there is a long history of various popes condemning it.

I didn't find a reliable translation; my research was interrupted.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

If the Popes condemn it. Well so do i.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jan 29 2006, 06:49 PM']Yes, this is true.  Most Jews in Israel are secular (non-religious) Jews.  The actual proportion is hard to determine.  I've heard they're 60%-90% atheist. 

After reading this topic I started doing some research on the Talmud.  It's very interesting, and there is a long history of various popes condemning it.

I didn't find a reliable translation; my research was interrupted.
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could you (if possible) elaborate on what these Pope's said?


sam

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i do not know how accurate this site is since it is protestant. But i found it linked on a Catholic site. [url="http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm#Talmud%20Unmasked"]http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.h...lmud%20Unmasked[/url]

on that site is a book written in 1892 by a Catholic Priest. It has an Imparatur as well.

[quote]Rev. I. B. Pranaitis

Roman Catholic Priest; Master of Theology and Professor
of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical
Academy of the Roman Catholic Church
in Old St. Petersburg.

St. Petersburg
Printing office of the
Imperial Academy of Sciences
1892

IMPRIMATUR
St. Petersburg,
KOZLOWSKY
Archbishop Metropolitan of Moghileff[/quote]


It is from Christus Rex et Redemptor Mundi which Catholic Culture gave a fidelity because of its anti-semetism. so i don't know if it is is reliable.
[url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/index.html"]http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/index.html[/url]


sam

[philothea]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 29 2006, 06:25 PM']could you (if possible) elaborate on what these Pope's said?
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When I get more information, I will post it. I read about various papal bulls issued in the middle ages, where the Talmud was banned, and copies were collected and burned.

[philothea]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jan 29 2006, 07:16 PM'][quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 29 2006, 06:25 PM']
could you (if possible) elaborate on what these Pope's said?
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When I get more information, I will post it. I read about various papal bulls issued in the middle ages, where the Talmud was banned, and copies were collected and burned.
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Dang... the Talmud is 30 volumes! There isn't a free, complete English translation available.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud#External_attacks_on_the_Talmud"]Here is a summary[/url] of the dispute between the Church and the Talmud. Kind of sketchy. It's Wikipedia, so it's probably not the most scholarly discussion around, but it'll give you an idea.

The only English translation I could find is [url="http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm"]here[/url], and it's only ten volumes, but I don't think it's following any particular agenda.

I haven't looked at a whole lot. It's really... dense.

[Krostandt]

Also remember, before we go around tossing quotes from the Talmud, that a Jew is recommended to have advice from a Rabbai (much like Christians with Scripture and Patristic teachings) as someone untrained can easily fall into false teaching.

[hyperdulia again]

My Jesus is a God of His Promises. The Jewish people are still God's people. They need the fulfillment of truth contained in the revelation of the Son and in the Catholic Church, but they are still God's people. And if the first covenant is revoked why on earth should I trust the second?

[hyperdulia again]

The Talmud is NO LONGER the primary authority in Orthodox Judaism. The Shulchan Aruch (which for some has been superseded by the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch and other texts) is primary and definitive commentary on Rabbinic Tradition to most Orthodox Jews.