Luthien Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 So I went to a retreat this weekend, a NET retreat. The NET team was not there the first night, so the youth ministers felt the need to make the kids do a labyrinth. I think its new age. I didnt like it, I wanted benediction and vespers dang it. Why do people think kids dont want orthodoxy? All we did was walk around this stupid maze and "meditate" on "something on our minds" or whatever. I dunno. I just wish the youth ministers in this state would give kids more credit.
avemaria40 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I wish people would actually be enthusiastic enough to want to teach the Faith without having to water it down. It's so annoying, I have friends that tell me they never learn anything in CCD (I converted so never went through it) and friends who have left the Catholic Church in favor of Protestant parishes in my town because they do more. One friend, when hearing where I went to church, had told me that my church sucked because no one ever did anything in it, and i've heard so many complaints on the music that I am just about ready to buy some Gregorian Chant texts and get someone to teach all the choirs how to sing it, as well as getting some enthusiastic Catholic music for our teen Mass. I've more than once asked my priest if we can do Lifeteen and have been told no alot. This is why people think Catholics don't read the Bible and aren't Christians, so many kids have no idea what the Church actually teaches and then they leave the Church in favor of secularism or fundamentalism and no one wants to teach them the Truth because they are afraid that kids will not want to listen but as they live in fear, the thing they feared actually happens
Luthien Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 I totally agree. I mean, you present kids with fluff, thats what their going to go out of high school with. I know soooo many kids from youth ministry who after gradutating, stopped going to Mass. If all they are shown of religion is either uptight and unloving, or happy clown mass hippy stuff, they're going to not go to church anymore. In parishes where there is an orthodox priest who is interested in the youth, I see so many strong Catholics in the making. People who like fluff, arent strong Catholics. When you drive people who are orthodox away, you are left with a weak parish. Ive seen it, and it is truely depressing. The Church in this country needs some serious help.
mariology21 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 13 2006, 11:27 AM']I wish people would actually be enthusiastic enough to want to teach the Faith without having to water it down. It's so annoying, I have friends that tell me they never learn anything in CCD (I converted so never went through it) and friends who have left the Catholic Church in favor of Protestant parishes in my town because they do more. [right][snapback]885727[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As the Facilitator of Religious Education at my parish I'm with you on this one. I'm finding that my catechists....through no fault of their own really....don't know the faith well so how can I expect them to bring it to our students? I'm trying so hard to catecize the catechists so they can then take it to the students. It's a slow process though. On the other hand I was just hired as youth minister as well and while we're starting out with a small group....the ones that came are very enthusiastic and want to learn....the TRUE faith. They won't accept a watered down teaching and I'm very excited to get going with this. I'm hoping that through the youth ministry I can then bring the enthusiasm to the Religious Education program. Like I said it's slow going and I get frustrated at times. That's when I ask the Holy Spirit to infuse me with His energy and enthusiasm in order to bring it to everyone else in the program. ~Jen
Luthien Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='mariology21' date='Feb 13 2006, 09:40 AM']As the Facilitator of Religious Education at my parish I'm with you on this one. I'm finding that my catechists....through no fault of their own really....don't know the faith well so how can I expect them to bring it to our students? I'm trying so hard to catecize the catechists so they can then take it to the students. It's a slow process though. On the other hand I was just hired as youth minister as well and while we're starting out with a small group....the ones that came are very enthusiastic and want to learn....the TRUE faith. They won't accept a watered down teaching and I'm very excited to get going with this. I'm hoping that through the youth ministry I can then bring the enthusiasm to the Religious Education program. Like I said it's slow going and I get frustrated at times. That's when I ask the Holy Spirit to infuse me with His energy and enthusiasm in order to bring it to everyone else in the program. ~Jen [right][snapback]885733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think I've found my calling in life.
avemaria40 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 The same happens in my church, it's too much fluff, the preists are good ,but alot of kids say that CCD, all they do is read and answer questions or play stupid games. It's really sad, because alot of the parents are nominal Catholics who only go to Mass on holidays, for baptisms, First Penance, First Holy Communion, Confirmation, weddings, and funerals. The kids' only exposure to the Faith is CCD, but they don't learn anything, and as a result, a lot of my friends want nothing to do with church or they like being Catholic but they don't know a heck of a lot about it and when they hear the Methodist church has a cool youth program, they will go because to them, it's still Christian so who cares? Catholicism is beautiful, exciting, rewarding, and amazing but it's presented as a chore, as a thing you have to do until you get Confirmed and then you're done. The one thing a lot of kids know about Mass? They have to go to it.
Thumper Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I see what you all are saying, but the labyrinth itself is an ancient form of Christian prayer/architecture. From www.findingstone.com/workshops/labyrinth/: "The oldest existing Christian labyrinth is probably the one in the fourth-century basilica of Reparatus, Orleansville, Algeria. And while Christians used labyrinths on pre-Christian sites and modeled their own after ones used by earlier cultures, the development of the high medieval Christian seven circuit labyrinth was a breakthrough in design. Its path of seven circles was cruciform (shaped like the Cross) and thus incorporated the central Christian symbol. Use of these labyrinths flourished in Europe throughout the eleventh and twelfth centuries and beyond, especially in the French cathedrals of Chartres, Sens, Poitiers, Bayeaux, Amiens and Rheims and in the Italian cathedrals at Lucca and San Maria-di-Trastavera in Rome. Medieval pilgrims, unable to fulfill their desire to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, went instead to many pilgrimage sites in Europe or Britain. In many cases the end of their journey was a labyrinth formed of stone and laid in the floor of the nave of one of these great Gothic cathedrals. The center of the labyrinths probably represented for many pilgrims the Holy City itself and thus became the substitute goal of the journey." Now, I totally agree that if you're going to pray your way through the labyrinth, it is very important to contextualize it as a form of prayer, and be clear about how it works. Sounds like that didn't happen for you, Luthien, and I wish that the folks in charge of your retreat would have connected this prayer form with your own particular experiences, what you are discerning right now, your daily pilgrimmage to God, etc.
avemaria40 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='mariology21' date='Feb 13 2006, 11:40 AM']As the Facilitator of Religious Education at my parish I'm with you on this one. I'm finding that my catechists....through no fault of their own really....don't know the faith well so how can I expect them to bring it to our students? I'm trying so hard to catecize the catechists so they can then take it to the students. It's a slow process though. On the other hand I was just hired as youth minister as well and while we're starting out with a small group....the ones that came are very enthusiastic and want to learn....the TRUE faith. They won't accept a watered down teaching and I'm very excited to get going with this. I'm hoping that through the youth ministry I can then bring the enthusiasm to the Religious Education program. Like I said it's slow going and I get frustrated at times. That's when I ask the Holy Spirit to infuse me with His energy and enthusiasm in order to bring it to everyone else in the program. ~Jen [right][snapback]885733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That sounds awesome! That is so cool that you're willing to make a difference in your parish! Keep it up and hope your program continues to go well!
Luthien Posted February 13, 2006 Author Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='Thumper' date='Feb 13 2006, 09:43 AM']I see what you all are saying, but the labyrinth itself is an ancient form of Christian prayer/architecture. From www.findingstone.com/workshops/labyrinth/: "The oldest existing Christian labyrinth is probably the one in the fourth-century basilica of Reparatus, Orleansville, Algeria. And while Christians used labyrinths on pre-Christian sites and modeled their own after ones used by earlier cultures, the development of the high medieval Christian seven circuit labyrinth was a breakthrough in design. Its path of seven circles was cruciform (shaped like the Cross) and thus incorporated the central Christian symbol. Use of these labyrinths flourished in Europe throughout the eleventh and twelfth centuries and beyond, especially in the French cathedrals of Chartres, Sens, Poitiers, Bayeaux, Amiens and Rheims and in the Italian cathedrals at Lucca and San Maria-di-Trastavera in Rome. Medieval pilgrims, unable to fulfill their desire to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, went instead to many pilgrimage sites in Europe or Britain. In many cases the end of their journey was a labyrinth formed of stone and laid in the floor of the nave of one of these great Gothic cathedrals. The center of the labyrinths probably represented for many pilgrims the Holy City itself and thus became the substitute goal of the journey." Now, I totally agree that if you're going to pray your way through the labyrinth, it is very important to contextualize it as a form of prayer, and be clear about how it works. Sounds like that didn't happen for you, Luthien, and I wish that the folks in charge of your retreat would have connected this prayer form with your own particular experiences, what you are discerning right now, your daily pilgrimmage to God, etc. [right][snapback]885739[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I just think incense and bells and latin and Gregorian chant and adoration would have kicked its butt.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='Luthien' date='Feb 13 2006, 11:47 AM']I just think incense and bells and latin and Gregorian chant and adoration would have kicked its butt. [right][snapback]885743[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, of course they would.
scardella Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Was it anything like this: [img]http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~apacker/pictures/bowie_labyrinth_inside1.jpg[/img]
prose Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I like the labyrinth thing. I think it is important to demonstrate to youth many different ways to pray. Some people take to some styles better than others. I can't stand some forms of prayer, but I still show the kids b/c sometimes it is what they are looking for.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='scardella' date='Feb 13 2006, 12:17 PM']Was it anything like this: [img]http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~apacker/pictures/bowie_labyrinth_inside1.jpg[/img] [right][snapback]885771[/snapback][/right] [/quote] StColette LOVES that movie!
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='prose' date='Feb 13 2006, 12:24 PM']I like the labyrinth thing. I think it is important to demonstrate to youth many different ways to pray. Some people take to some styles better than others. I can't stand some forms of prayer, but I still show the kids b/c sometimes it is what they are looking for. [right][snapback]885784[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The labyrinth may have some historical place, but in our culture, it is far too associated with new age stuff...I don't think it has any place. You can't teach the kids centering prayer and say that you're just trying to teach diverse prayer styles.
avemaria40 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Why can't we be good Catholics and teach them about the Rosary?
DemonSlayer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I also thought you might be talking about the movie.
mariology21 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='Thumper' date='Feb 13 2006, 11:43 AM']I see what you all are saying, but the labyrinth itself is an ancient form of Christian prayer/architecture. Now, I totally agree that if you're going to pray your way through the labyrinth, it is very important to contextualize it as a form of prayer, and be clear about how it works. Sounds like that didn't happen for you, Luthien, and I wish that the folks in charge of your retreat would have connected this prayer form with your own particular experiences, what you are discerning right now, your daily pilgrimmage to God, etc. [right][snapback]885739[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think if they had explained about the history of the labyrinth it would have had more "effect". It sounds to me that they just needed something to do to "keep the kids busy" so kind of just threw them into the labryinth. Unfortunatly that happens with lots of different things with our faith. (Which could also be because those running retreats and such don't truly understand the different forms of prayer and such.) ~Jen
mariology21 Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 13 2006, 12:40 PM']Why can't we be good Catholics and teach them about the Rosary? [right][snapback]885815[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Or the Stations of the Cross? Or the significance of the Mass? Or the Liturgy of the Hours? Or Adoration? Way too many of the "old" devotions have been "lost" and I for one thing it's incredibly sad. THOSE are what "makes up" our faith and that's what we need to "bring back" to these youth. ~Jen
jezic Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 i thought they were neat ideas for a long time, but now i would agree. THey are taking the Jesus out of prayer. (satan tries to do this a lot) The only way i thought of that could be good is if it had actual walls and you did a meditation about finding Jesus in your life and then found the middle and there was a Tabernacle. Then it would be alright.
jezic Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Feb 13 2006, 09:27 AM']I wish people would actually be enthusiastic enough to want to teach the Faith without having to water it down. It's so annoying, I have friends that tell me they never learn anything in CCD (I converted so never went through it) and friends who have left the Catholic Church in favor of Protestant parishes in my town because they do more. One friend, when hearing where I went to church, had told me that my church sucked because no one ever did anything in it, and i've heard so many complaints on the music that I am just about ready to buy some Gregorian Chant texts and get someone to teach all the choirs how to sing it, as well as getting some enthusiastic Catholic music for our teen Mass. I've more than once asked my priest if we can do Lifeteen and have been told no alot. This is why people think Catholics don't read the Bible and aren't Christians, so many kids have no idea what the Church actually teaches and then they leave the Church in favor of secularism or fundamentalism and no one wants to teach them the Truth because they are afraid that kids will not want to listen but as they live in fear, the thing they feared actually happens [right][snapback]885727[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ok new idea, don't be so ready to go buy those chants, do it! now! Chant rocks
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