Thumper Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 Luther's "On Christian Liberty," a.k.a. "The Freedom of a Christian."
Brother Adam Posted March 27, 2006 Author Posted March 27, 2006 [quote name='Thumper' date='Mar 27 2006, 04:06 PM']Luther's "On Christian Liberty," a.k.a. "The Freedom of a Christian." [right][snapback]924048[/snapback][/right] [/quote] thanks. i haven't read that.
sweetpea316 Posted March 27, 2006 Posted March 27, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Mar 27 2006, 11:42 AM']Didnt Luther write his own "catechism?" [right][snapback]923772[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 27 2006, 11:43 AM']Yeah. I have his large and small catechisms. I remember reading them and ripping right through how much of it was unbiblical when I was a Lutheran. It sent my pastor into a panic .Of course then I became a Baptist. lol. [right][snapback]923775[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Heh... yeah... I went back and read through mine the other day and was like "WOW".
infinitelord1 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I heard that some of the earliest fathers of the protestant reformation such as martin luther had claimed that they had once been possessed by demons.
Paladin Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I took an American Church History class a few semesters ago. Our main text was a compilation edited by our professor, a Pentecostal. The book talked about the influences of the founders of the Pentecostal/Holiness movement, a very prominent denomination in the U.S. I'll see if I can't find the book and post the names of the founders.
Cow of Shame Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Mar 27 2006, 11:55 PM']I heard that some of the earliest fathers of the protestant reformation such as martin luther had claimed that they had once been possessed by demons. [right][snapback]924597[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sounds like urban myths
Peccator Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I can only really speak form myself... I honesty do not own any more Protestant books...I've never been able to argue a Protestant into conversion(or even into merely considering my point), so I see no use in it. I am able to defend my Church apologetics wise though...
Brother Adam Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Mar 27 2006, 11:59 PM']Sounds like urban myths [right][snapback]924730[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Luther did write about throwing his own feces at satan.
Brother Adam Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Peccator' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:05 AM']I can only really speak form myself... I honesty do not own any more Protestant books...I've never been able to argue a Protestant into conversion(or even into merely considering my point), so I see no use in it. I am able to defend my Church apologetics wise though... [right][snapback]924736[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I see a use in it. :waves: Else, I would not be receiving the sacraments if it wasn't for the learned Catholic men and women who helped me along.
Cow of Shame Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 28 2006, 07:36 AM']Luther did write about throwing his own feces at satan. [right][snapback]924784[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think if you see the Lord of Lies while you're on the crapper, you're straining too hard.
jswranch Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Mar 28 2006, 08:45 AM']I think if you see the Lord of Lies while you're on the crapper, you're straining too hard. [right][snapback]924922[/snapback][/right] [/quote] LOL you need help As for book recommendations, I found the Westminster Confession and 39 Articles helpful for understanding the foundings of Protestantism. Also, Westminster and 39 articles serve as an excellent start for discussing church history.
Snarf Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 Luther's [i]De Servo Arbitrio[/i]. Reading it invariably makes you amazed that anyone took him seriously.
sweetpea316 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 28 2006, 05:37 AM']I see a use in it. :waves: Else, I would not be receiving the sacraments if it wasn't for the learned Catholic men and women who helped me along. [right][snapback]924785[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Likewise! I'm almost there too. :
dspen2005 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 27 2006, 02:34 PM']You do huh? Okay then. We study the writings of those who disagree with us so we really actually do know what they believe, because others do believe in Protestant doctrines. If you have no command of their faith, they will run circles around you. By studying what they believe, what their arguments are, and knowing what the Catholic faith teaches in response to it, you will be educated enough to be respected. I'm not talking about internet apologetics, I'm speaking on a more professional level. If you want to convince the president of Planned Parenthood abortion is wrong, you're not going to accomplish it by telling him you are Catholic and you think it is wrong. You have to know his position better than he does. that's the key. If you walk into a room full of Calvinists and know what Calvin teaches, you will gain more respect than if you don't know anything about Calvin. They will be much more likely to feel the need to educate you rather than to hear you out. [right][snapback]923926[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i never said that i would simply say "i'm Catholic and you are wrong" in response to their arguments. I think that you are construing something that is not in anything that I said. I do not need to read some Protestant publication in order to have a discussion with a Prot. By knowing my Faith and I can reasonably and coherently have a discussion with them, can't I? if not, why not?
Neal4Christ Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='Peccator' date='Mar 27 2006, 11:05 PM']I can only really speak form myself... I honesty do not own any more Protestant books...I've never been able to argue a Protestant into conversion(or even into merely considering my point), so I see no use in it. I am able to defend my Church apologetics wise though... [right][snapback]924736[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I was a Protestant argued into conversion. :
photosynthesis Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I'd try to be familiar with the writings of Ulrich Zwingli, since I think he was one of the first Reformers to deny the Real Presence of the Eucharist... Luther believed in the Real Presence. I'd also read "The Fundamentals" [quote name='Thumper' date='Mar 27 2006, 05:06 PM']Luther's "On Christian Liberty," a.k.a. "The Freedom of a Christian." [right][snapback]924048[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I read this one for my history class in college, and it was one of the things that brought me into the Catholic Church, because I realized that I agreed with Catholics more than this guy. [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Mar 28 2006, 07:36 AM']Luther did write about throwing his own feces at satan. [right][snapback]924784[/snapback][/right] [/quote] was he a monkey?
Brother Adam Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Mar 28 2006, 02:43 PM']i never said that i would simply say "i'm Catholic and you are wrong" in response to their arguments. I think that you are construing something that is not in anything that I said. I do not need to read some Protestant publication in order to have a discussion with a Prot. By knowing my Faith and I can reasonably and coherently have a discussion with them, can't I? if not, why not? [right][snapback]925516[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think that is the problem. You insisted that no one should ever read any of Protestant writings if they are going to have ecumenical discussions with Protestants. That's like saying "We are going to discuss diplomatic relations with China" and no nothing about Communionism. You can have a reasonable discussion about your own Catholic faith with a Protestant if you know your Catholic faith, but no, I do not believe you can have a reasonable discussion with a Protestant if you know nothing about the Protestant faith. Protestants are not, generally, ignorant, and many have constructed vast systems of theology that 'make sense'. If you don't know where the weaknesses are, it does little good in the discussion. That's why I am seeking out other primary texts. I know Lutheranism really well, as well as fundamentalists. Now I'm interested in learning about Calvinists and a few other groups.
Brother Adam Posted March 28, 2006 Author Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Mar 28 2006, 02:50 PM']I'd try to be familiar with the writings of Ulrich Zwingli. [right][snapback]925533[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hehehe. He's a nut. I like him. : Sorry. Actually when people bring him up I know its going to be a good time. He is so easy to debunk. The other Protestant fathers did not like him.
photosynthesis Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 I get so frustrated when talking about theology with Protestants who've never read ANYTHING from the Catechism, any church documents, or any books written by Catholics, except maybe the New Testament, if they've even gotten through that. It is so annoying to me when all a Protestant knows of the Catholic Church only comes from the likes of anti-Catholic pastors and writers. And these people are the easiest for me to brush aside, saying "You obviously know nothing of the Catholic faith, so why should I take you seriously?" I tend to only pay attention to Protestants who are honestly seeking to know more about the Catholic Church from Catholics. It follows then, that if I want Protestants to take me seriously, I should know about the foundations of their beliefs from the reformers themselves.
goldenchild17 Posted March 28, 2006 Posted March 28, 2006 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Mar 27 2006, 01:24 PM']yes i do... it is to bring those outside of the Catholic Fullness into it... [right][snapback]923907[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Amen
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