Help From Cam

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:12 PM']Why should we listen to you rather than the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI??
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[/quote]

DO NOT LISTEN TO ME!

listen to the words of the Late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

the reason bieng the pope is teaching novelties that have always been condemned by the church.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 07:13 PM']DO NOT LISTEN TO ME!

listen to the words of the Late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

the reason bieng the pope is teaching novelties that have always been condemned by the church.
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Last I checked, Benedict was Pope. Lefebvre was not.

But I'll take your advice and not listen to you.
You can go work your childish mischief somewhere else.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:16 PM']Last I checked, Benedict was Pope.  Lefebvre was not.

But I'll take your advice and not listen to you. 
You can go work your childish mischief somewhere else.
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[/quote]

Ad hominem.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Mar 31 2006, 06:52 PM']I am NOT! I am just trying to make sure I do not believe any error.
a lot of the people arent liberal neo-cons. I am not asking Brother Adam or CMotherofPearl to help me. I am asking Cam and other traditional minded people to help me.
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:lol_grin:

if nothing else , you are entertaining...

[Fidei Defensor]

Sam, you simply don't get it.

You offend many people daily by your blatant disrespect for the Church. You are not speaking truth, you are just stirring up scandal. True reform comes from within, not from a silly child who has it set in his mind that the Church and Pope teach lies.

Either stop or leave. I have the right to be faithful to the Holy Father and the Church without being scandalized because of it. You do not have the right to cut down the Holy Father or the Church.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:35 PM']Sam, you simply don't get it.

You offend many people daily by your blatant disrespect for the Church. You are not speaking truth, you are just stirring up scandal.  True reform comes from within, not from a silly child who has it set in his mind that the Church and Pope teach lies.

Either stop or leave. I have the right to be faithful to the Holy Father and the Church without being scandalized because of it. You do not have the right to cut down the Holy Father or the Church.
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no you do not get it. I am speaking the truth. you call Marcel Lefebvre a schismatic, but would you dare call St. Athansius that too? You believe in novelties that that church has never taught and are irreconcilable with Tradition.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:16 PM']Ad hominem.
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[/quote]

truth.

You come here and attack the Holy Father, Magisterium, and the entire Catholic Church, and get annoyed we don't appreciate it.
If you are not on the boat with Peter, you are swimming with the sharks.
we keep offering lifejackets, but you prefer the sharks....

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Mar 31 2006, 05:51 PM']I would like help from Cam to point out and correct any schismatic, heretical, or errored beliefs that I may have. Though I am only specifically asking Cam to help me, I also welcome help from any Catholic on this forum that does not adhere to the SSPX or think that people who only hear the TLM are stubborn.
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I commend your efforts and I am proud of the sincere effort that it seems you are making.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 07:16 PM']Ad hominem.
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Pope Benedict XVI sits in the Chair of St. Peter.

You do not. Lefebvre did not. Whatever rad-trad internet people you get this tripe from most certainly do not.

"Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I shall build my Church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I shall give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

~ Matthew 16:19

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

your argument makes no sense. are you saying the Pope can not err in any teaching whatsoever?


Pope Liberius I allowed Arianism to infiltrate the church and excommunicated Athansius. was that justified? did Athansius not have the "right" to teach the true faith?

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 06:13 PM']maybe i should have said the New church.
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there is no such thing as a new church

only

ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='ReinnieR' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:45 PM']there is no such thing as a new church

only

ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH
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new church is an expression that is used to describe Members of the church who accept the novelties of Vatican II.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 07:44 PM']your argument makes no sense. are you saying the Pope can not err in any teaching whatsoever?
Pope Liberius I allowed Arianism to infiltrate the church and excommunicated Athansius. was that justified? did Athansius not have the "right" to teach the true faith?
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The Pope cannot teach error regarding the Catholic Faith.

Pope Liberius never taught Arianism.

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 07:47 PM']new church is an expression that is used to describe Members of the church who accept the novelties of Vatican II.
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there's nothing wrong with Vatican II Sam

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:06 PM']Pius XIII is dead.

i am not pope. i am just looking to tradition.
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[/quote]

You seem to forget tradition covers ALL 2000 YEARS, not just the parts the trads idolize.

Anyway....

This thread is STM's thread, and the hijacking is over. If you don't have something helpful to say , post elsewhere. If you diss the Church again, you will get a warning or suspension.

[Ash Wednesday]

Prayers for STM and EENS.

[brendan1104]

Prayers are needed.

Tyler, you should pursue your questions via PM or e-mail with Cam.

Sam and Tyler, you both are sounding rather chidlish right now... then again Tommy More is 12 or 13 but still...

Pray for the unity of the Mystical Body of Christ.

[Cam42]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Mar 31 2006, 06:51 PM']I would like help from Cam to point out and correct any schismatic, heretical, or errored beliefs that I may have. Though I am only specifically asking Cam to help me, I also welcome help from any Catholic on this forum that does not adhere to the SSPX or think that people who only hear the TLM are stubborn.
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Sorry, just got done with a marathon day at work.....(8am-10pm)

Anywhoo.....What errors specifically Tyler?.....so far you have been vague and have let yourself get caught up in all the hoopla surrounding your initial statement, so let's get the ball rolling.

(Oh, as a side note....Sam, do you really want to get into a P & Ming match with me? Please don't refer to me as "New Church" ever again. Thank you.)

The first thing that we should look at Tyler is the understanding of Tradition. There are two types.....tradition with a "small t" and Tradition with a "capital T."

The first is something that is changeable and derived from Man and his disciplines regarding something which we can know with some sort of certainty.

A good example would be priestly celibacy. While it is tradition that priests remain celibate, there is no precidence that this has been the case for all time and has been known to be a truth from the beginning of the Church/time.

The second is something that is immutable and based upon a Truth that we must adhere to with divine faith. This may or may not be dogma.

A good example would be an all male priesthood (staying within the same vein). There is precidence that states that the case for an all male clergy has existed from the beginning of the Church/time.

When we think of Tradition v. tradition, we should think of it as Truth v. discipline. While there are some aspects of the Truth that are disciplinary, all aspects of discipline are held within the Truth. This is self evident in the understanding of the role of the clergy.

Look to what Ecclesia Dei says about the SSPX and Tradition:
[quote name='Ecclesia Dei #4']The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".

But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.[/quote]

My analogy about the clergy speaks directly to this understanding of Tradition.

Since I am not really sure where you want this thread to go, I will wait to see what you want from it. So, ask any question, I will answer it to the best of my ability and I will make sure to cut through all of Sam's whining about "New Church" and adherence to schismatic bishops.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 09:44 PM']your argument makes no sense. are you saying the Pope can not err in any teaching whatsoever?
Pope Liberius I allowed Arianism to infiltrate the church and excommunicated Athansius. was that justified? did Athansius not have the "right" to teach the true faith?
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Sam, do your homework......and stop misrepresenting that position. We have been over it before and you were wrong then too.

Incidentally, I don't think that you even know what an ad hominem is Sam. What was said earlier is not an ad hominem, it is the truth.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 08:13 PM']DO NOT LISTEN TO ME!

listen to the words of the Late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

the reason bieng the pope is teaching novelties that have always been condemned by the church.
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[/quote]

I really believe you are going to come back home to the Catholic Church one day Sam. I really believe that you will. I hope we are around when you do, to rejoice with you.