Help From Cam

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:29 AM']The principle is the same. You cannot force belief on someone.
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its not forcing

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:30 AM']its not forcing
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In an Islamic state? Have you seen the news recently about the Christian convert who was to be executed for converting away from Islam?

[avemaria40]

That would not bring those people into the church and those who did come would do it for the benefits.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 10:30 AM']its not forcing
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Young man. If you keep on with that smart alec attitude, we'll have to take your pokemon cards away.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:31 AM']In an Islamic state? Have you seen the news recently about the Christian convert who was to be executed for converting away from Islam?
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stop bieng wrong all the time. i ment in a Traditional Catholic state.

As long as no one is making them convert its fine. but to tolerate them can be wrong in itself becasue it is giving the people the right to spread false lies and lead people from the truth. this is why st. Thomas Aquinas says that the execution of heretics is laudable.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:33 AM']Young man.  If you keep on with that smart alec attitude, we'll have to take your pokemon cards away.
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what are you talking about?

get lost buddy.

[Fidei Defensor]

Also from [i]Dignitatis Humanae[/i]:

[quote]10. It is one of the major tenets of Catholic doctrine that [b]man's response to God in faith must be free:[/b] no one therefore is to be forced to embrace the Christian faith against his own will. This doctrine is contained in the word of God and it was constantly proclaimed by the Fathers of the Church. The act of faith is of its very nature a free act. [b]Man, redeemed by Christ the Savior and through Christ Jesus called to be God's adopted son, cannot give his adherence to God revealing Himself unless, under the drawing of the Father, he offers to God the reasonable and free submission of faith.[/b] It is therefore completely in accord with the nature of faith that in matters religious every manner of coercion on the part of men should be excluded. In consequence, the principle of religious freedom makes no small contribution to the creation of an environment in which [b]men can without hindrance be invited to the Christian faith, embrace it of their own free will, and profess it effectively in their whole manner of life[/b].[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:35 AM']stop bieng wrong all the time. i ment in a Traditional Catholic state.

As long as no one is making them convert its fine. but to tolerate them can be wrong in itself becasue it is giving the people the right to spread false lies and lead people from the truth. this is why st. Thomas Aquinas says that the execution of heretics is laudable.
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So if someone decides to be no longer be catholic you execute them or throw them out of the country?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:37 AM']So if someone decides to be no longer be catholic you execute them or throw them out of the country?
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no. if they chose that then its fine. if they try and lead other catholcs astray then we throw them in prison and excute them or banish them. if it is a catholic state heresy is the equivalent of treason.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:35 AM']stop bieng wrong all the time. i ment in a Traditional Catholic state.

As long as no one is making them convert its fine. but to tolerate them can be wrong in itself becasue it is giving the people the right to spread false lies and lead people from the truth. this is why st. Thomas Aquinas says that the execution of heretics is laudable.
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Can you show me anywhere where there is a Catholic State in which heretics roam and spread lies to the people?

There does not exist one in this day and age (which personally, makes me sad.) Therefore, the Church must address what does exist in this time, which are Islamic states and democracies.

[rkwright]

[quote name='StThomasMore' date='Apr 1 2006, 10:58 AM']In the post that started this thread, I asked certain types of people not to intrude on this forum, I will repeat myself. Manifistations of liberalism and anti-TLMism (aka Cmom, rkwright) please do not intrude on this thread!

Is it incorrect to say that religious freedom is wrong?
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I'm not sure how I got labeled a liberal or an anti-TLMer but its clearly false. I have n't said anything of that nature in this thread. I guess if attending a NO mass, or not questioning the Magisterium makes me a liberal, then ok, but I think the term orthodox is much more appropiate.

And an anti-TLMer?? please that shows how little you know of me... I wake up at 530 and drive 2 hours just to get to a TLM mass on Sundays and attend a NO on weekdays.

but oh well, I guess Cmom's and my comments aren't welcome here... I'll stop wasting my time.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 1 2006, 11:38 AM']no. if they chose that then its fine. if they try and lead other catholcs astray then we throw them in prison and excute them or banish them. if it is a catholic state heresy is the equivalent of treason.
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you do realize that all you SSPXers under this type of government would be in jail by now.... its because of religious freedom that you can worship the way you do.

[Cam42]

StThomasMore,

I am sorry that Sam hijacked this thread. If you would like to continue to ask, we can move forward. If you would rather PM me, that is fine too.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Mar 31 2006, 06:43 PM']converting to the Novus Ordo.
and im sure these are the people to ask.... they are not trads tyler.
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no but we are CATHOLIC!!!! which is better??? trad? or Catholic? you can't have both

[Ora et Labora]

hi.