Do you support the Crusades?

[Justified Saint]

Look how odd the question is worded "Do you support the Crusades?", at least that is not as bad as saying "Do you believe in the Crusades?" which is like asking do you believe in trees. One does not support dogmas, they believe in them. How are the crusades a definition of doctrine? -- well, they aren't.

Once again, as my discussion with EENS highlighted, history is being confused with doctrine. Church discipline is a matter of contingent, historical circumstances. hot stuff's clever insight at the very start should have ended this thread.

[homeschoolmom]

What's to support? Is that Geoffery Chaucer fellow out looking for a handout again?

[pyranima]

most people dont understand the background of the crusades. i like to put it like this: if i came into your house killed your family and kicked you out do you have a right to take back whats yours and have justice? then why dont we Christians?

think of it this way... If someone took over the Vatican and the area around it would we have the right to march to retake it?

**GRABS SWORD AND SHIELD** "To Rome"

[bx_racer]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1018644' date='Jul 6 2006, 06:25 PM']
most people dont understand the background of the crusades. i like to put it like this: if i came into your house killed your family and kicked you out do you have a right to take back whats yours and have justice? then why dont we Christians?

think of it this way... If someone took over the Vatican and the area around it would we have the right to march to retake it?

**GRABS SWORD AND SHIELD** "To Rome"
[/quote]

so... assuming you live in the u.s., if people of native american descent started killing your family off youd be perfectly ok with it.

Edited July 7, 2006 by bx_racer

[pyranima]

[quote name='bx_racer' post='1018736' date='Jul 6 2006, 08:28 PM']
so... if people of native american descent started killing your family off youd be perfectly ok with it.
[/quote]
Actually i would be one of the Native Americans killing the Whites... **Grabs tomahawk** this was actually an isssue that i needed to deal with coming into the Church because there were alot of bad things done to my people in the name of the Church. it took alot of research on my part and the discovery of an apology from JPII before i could come into the Church.

My People got screwed... i deal with it. now we have casinos and we take the whitemans money... haha... i know alot of black people that hold what the white Americans did to Blacks during the time of slavery against whites today. there was this one kid in class who was going off at the only 3 white kids in the class because of it, i turned around and told him to "Shut up, at least they imprisoned your people, they tried to whipe mine out.".


What you are saying is two different scenarios, Natives are no longer confined to the reserves they get a good start from the Government if they choose to move off the reserve. we Natives tend to be intraveted and dont like to be bothered by the outside world. The government is working with my people to set things as right as it can be, however the muslims have a "convert or die" attitude that they still keep. this is way to indepth for me to go into here but there is a difference in that the American Government is trying to do something where as the Muslim government does nothing but kill anyone who converts and refuses to get along. it has taken a long time for my people to get what they have gotten, however the muslims have held the middle east hostage for longer.

[jswranch]

The pope had more reason to call the crusades than the US did in going to war against the Germans (WWI or WWII).

[avemaria40]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1018587' date='Jul 6 2006, 06:57 PM']
I take it Ave Maria doesnt support the Good And Holy Willed By God Through the Infallabiliby of the Vicar of Christ Crusades.
[/quote]

No, I'm saying that the Pope's teachings extend as far as Faith and Morals (when it comes to infallibility) and are not binding, like Era says, when it comes to prudential judgments. I support the idea of Crusades, sometimes we have to go to war to defend our Faith and I think the Pope had a right to call them, however, there were many abuses during the time of the actual Crusades and I'm wondering if part of that is the reason why it seems that many places in the Middle East are hostile to Western society.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

The crusades were tragic times in human history, as is anytime when we have to turn to brutal violence to solve problems.

[Lahecil]

I agree with Jesuspaidtheprice.

[Resurrexi]

disobedience! how dare you not accept the pope's teachings!?

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

Didn't your mom ever teach you that when you point one finger at someone else you point four back at yourself? For as much as you like to judge others I hardly ever see you make any kind of cognitive point. Christ talked about judging others and the manner in which it is to be done in the Gospels. If you have a Bible, I would encourage you to look it up. If not you can go to www.gospelcom.net. I still stand on my previous point. I highly doubt in the vast empire of telecommunications and the reorientation of Rome to focus evangelization that we will see any more crusades in the near future.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1019318' date='Jul 7 2006, 01:14 PM']
disobedience! how dare you not accept the pope's teachings!?
[/quote]
StThomasMore, you are silly. You go all crazy because not everyone agrees that the Crusades were such a great thing, yet you still refuse to accept things that you ought to authentically accept, especially in regards to the order of the Mass.

Of course, we love you all the same But please, get yourself figured out here.

[Resurrexi]

No, I completely love the NO and accept is if it is just like Cam's parish. If it's not like that than I don't like it at all and think it liturgically abusive.

[Justified Saint]

It would be hard to say that St. Francis ever "supported" the crusades the way STM defines it. Was the Church wrong to make him a saint?

[Resurrexi]

Of course St. Francis supported the crusades. He may not have participated in them physically, but he most certainally prayed for the Christian soldiers that they would succeed and believed that they were just.

[Justified Saint]

Actually, he did participate in them physically and gave witness to the power of conversion and persuasion against force and violence.

[Resurrexi]

did you know that St Francis once took up a sword against an heretic?

[Justified Saint]

Sounds familiar and it wouldn't surprise me (Francis was not a pacifist), but what does that have to do with the crusades?

[Resurrexi]

[mod]Doesn't belong here... - inDEED[/mod]

[Justified Saint]

Are you really only 12? You should let your parents know you say stuff like that.

I am sorry I wasted my time.