Catholic Cardinal: 'no ulterior motives of conversions'

[Budge]

Hmm pretty much says that the Catholic Church is not interested in the conversion of Hindus involved with all its projects, reads from Hindu Holy Book and burns incense to GANESHA and Im supposed to be believe this guy is a CHRISTIAN who HONORs the FIRST COMMANDMENT?

I dont think so.

So wonder all you poor people are so confused when I post these threads against universalism with leaders like this...
[quote]
Church has no ulterior motives of conversion: Cardinal Dias
Jun 27, 2006
[size=5]Cardinal Ivan Dias, archbishop of Mumbai, who takes on a coveted office in the Vatican on Tuesday, stressed that all the health, educational and social projects of the Catholic Church in India had 'no ulterior motives of conversions'.
[/size]
Mumbai, June 26 (Indo-Asian News Service) Addressing a huge gathering at a grand farewell ceremony in Mumbai Sunday night, [size=5]the prelate said there was need of more thrust on inter-religious dialogue among people of diverse religious traditions to share ideas, experiences and to undertake common action for communal amity.[/size]
[/quote]
from www.novusordowatch.org/archive

Hey this is where theyve been heading for a long long time.

There are already HINDU-CATHOLICS, who have merged both religions together.

[quote]

[size=5]]Cardinal Dias has been appointed the 37th Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples,[/size] a crucial Vatican department, in the first such appointment of an Indian cardinal.

The authority of the Vatican department to be headed by Cardinal Dias extends to over five continents, with over 2,400 archbishops and bishops under his charge for various works of the church. He is known as the 'Red Pope' due to the extraordinary authority and influence he would wield.

He stressed on the relief and rehabilitation work done in Raigad district of Konkan region and the over 100 houses handed over to tribal victims rendered homeless by the monsoon deluge there by the Catholic Church last year.

The prelate said it is his dream that Indians would 'progress and flourish in human, humane and spiritual virtues'.

'I have a dream that India may have an abundance of not only of political parties and politicians but above all, of statesmen and women, who will place the well-being of the whole nation before their personal, party and petty interests', said the cardinal.

'The politicians should be ever alert and ready to combat the three evils of communalism, casteism and corruption, which pose a constant threat to our beloved Bharat Mata.

'I have a dream that politicians should be known for their noble intentions and selfless love for the poor and the marginalized. They should be outstanding in moral integrity.'
[size=5]
'I have a dream that the thirsting India's teeming millions should seek to be led 'from untruth to truth, from darkness to light, and from death to immortality,' he said quoting from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, 1.3.28. Cardinal Dias is fluent in 18 languages.[/size]

'I have a dream that the wonderful megapolis of Mumbai and the whole of the Indian sub-continent may progress and flourish in human, humane and spiritual virtues.'

'Cardinal Dias gave a fresh impetus for inter-religious dialogue to bring about not only religious harmony but a deep appreciation of the other faiths,' said Kala Acharya, director of K.J. Somaiya Bharatiya Sanskrit Peetham.

'He is a staunch defender of human rights and freedom of religious freedom,' Archbishop Stanislaus Fernandes, secretary general of Catholic Bishops' Conference of India, the top body of 210 Indian bishops, told IANS.

'He is one of India's distinguished and prominent Catholic prelate, who challenged the political leadership to respect the lives of the unborn, the infirm and the unwanted,' said Father Anthony Charanghat, editor of 157-year-old The Examiner weekly.

'In the stormy seas of moral and ethical turmoil, Cardinal Dias was fearless to be in the forefront against issues like abortion, euthanasia, contraception, illicit relationships and unethical scientific human engineering,' he added.

Since 1961, when the young priest Dias, born in Mumbai, was sent to Rome to study at the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy for Vatican Diplomats, it has been a steady rise for him in the Vatican's inner circle during the last three decades in various capacities, including as a high profile ambassador to various European, African and Asian countries during the reign of the charismatic and globe trotting Polish Pope John Paul II.

Known for his orthodoxy and as a stanch advocate of the traditional doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, Cardinal Dias is very close to Pope Benedict XVI and the inner coterie of the Vatican regime.[/quote]


[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/Images/B_054_diasdemon.jpg[/img]

Edited July 10, 2006 by dUSt

[pyranima]

[quote name='Budge' post='1021136' date='Jul 10 2006, 10:27 AM']
Hmm pretty much says that the Catholic Church is not interested in the conversion of Hindus involved with all its projects, reads from Hindu Holy Book and burns incense to GANESHA and Im supposed to be believe this guy is a CHRISTIAN who HONORs the FIRST COMMANDMENT?

I dont think so.

So wonder all you poor people are so confused when I post these threads against universalism with leaders like this...
[/quote] [size=7]ROAR[/size]

[Budge]

Are you mad at me or mad at the Ganesh loving Cardinal?

if youre mad at me, then it seems you dont want to deal with what is truly going on and just want to shoot the messenger.

If youre mad at the Cardinal, well hes just one of many doing the same thing in the Catholic clergy.

[Era Might]

When we evangelize, we do so plainly. We don't seek to "trick" people into the Christian faith and manipulate them with works of charity. The Church serves people of all faiths, because every man, of whatever religion, is a human being with human dignity, and is entitled to the benefits of food, water, education, and so on.

[quote]Do not be afraid to go out on the streets and into public places, like the first Apostles who preached Christ and the Good News of salvation in the squares of cities, towns and villages. This is no time to be ashamed of the Gospel (cf. Rom 1:16). It is the time to preach it from the rooftops (cf. Mt 10:27). Do not be afraid to break out of comfortable and routine modes of living, in order to take up the challenge of making Christ known in the modern ``metropolis''. It is you who must "go out into the byroads" (Mt 22:9) and invite everyone you meet to the banquet which God has prepared for his people. The Gospel must not be kept hidden because of fear or indifference. It was never meant to be hidden away in private. It has to be put on a stand so that people may see its light and give praise to our heavenly Father (cf. Mt 5:15-16).

--Pope John Paul II[/quote]

Edited July 10, 2006 by Era Might

[Budge]

[quote]When we evangelize, we do so plainly. We don't seek to "trick" people into the Christian faith and manipulate them with works of charity. The Church serves people of all faiths, because every man, of whatever religion, is a human being with human dignity, and is entitled to the benefits of food, water, education, and so on.[/quote]

What is wrong with just helping people out and preaching the gospel at the same time whether they accept it or reject it?

Only a church that considers the gospel to be OF OFFENSE, isntead of life changing and of true salvation in Jesus Christ would silence its workers out of some misguided endeavor to placate those who are of other religions.

Oh and youre ok with him doing an act of homage to Ganesha, Christians were MARTYRED for refusing to burn incense to the Roman emperor...cant you see what your Cardinal Just DID?

You poor people really have been led into delusions.

[Akalyte]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1021150' date='Jul 10 2006, 11:37 AM']
When we evangelize, we do so plainly. We don't seek to "trick" people into the Christian faith and manipulate them with works of charity. The Church serves people of all faiths, because every man, of whatever religion, is a human being with human dignity, and is entitled to the benefits of food, water, education, and so on.
[/quote]

[mod]Catholic vs Catholic debate. -dUSt[/mod]

[Budge]

[quote][mod]original post edited[/mod][/quote]

Are you JOKING again?

or actually having a flash of truth?

[Era Might]

Think about the sources here Just. Budge and Novus Ordo Watch. Take this thread with a huge grain of salt. Who knows what Cardinal Dias was doing? All we have is a picture that's trying to be exploited.

Here's another news article:
[quote]CARDINAL DIAS HAS HIGH HOPES FOR INDIA
Urges Believers to Ensure Country's Spiritual Growth

BOMBAY, India, JUNE 28, 2006 (Zenit.org ).- The former archbishop of Bombay urged believers to ensure that India grows not only as an economic power but above all in spiritual and moral values.

Recently appointed prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Cardinal Ivan Dias bid farewell to the archdiocese in which he was born and of which he has been pastor for the past decade.

Some 4,000 people from various faiths gathered Sunday in the Jesuit College of St. Peter in Bandra for the event.

Addressing those present, the cardinal said that India could make great strides ahead in spiritual progress, to be measured not so much by the stock exchange but by the growth of civic sense and moral values.

[b]"Christ loves India and India needs Christ," he stressed.[/b]

For their part, participants in the ceremony praised the cardinal for his significant commitment to interreligious dialogue in the country, as reported in a note issued by the bishops' conference of India.

Cardinal Dias said that three evils threaten the country: "ethnic chauvinism, the caste system and corruption."

He expressed the hope that India's many parties and politicians would show themselves to be statesmen of moral integrity, committed to working for the poor and outcast.

Church's commitment

The former archbishop of Bombay took advantage of the occasion to reiterate that the work of the Church in India, in the fields of education, social welfare and health, does not have, and never did have, the aim of proselytism.

He stressed the Church's aspect of commitment, not proselytism, a month ago, highlighting the figures of this dedicated work.

Although Christians represent only 2.3% of the Indian population, the cardinal observed, "they attend to 20% of the whole of primary education in the country, 10% of health and literacy community programs, 25% of care for orphans and widows, and 30% of care for the disabled, lepers and AIDS sufferers."

"The vast majority of those who make use of these institutions" belong to religions other than Christianity, he noted.

Such institutions are "very appreciated by Hindus, Muslims" and members of other creeds or of no creed, "who admire Christians for their dedicated service to the suffering, the marginalized, the illiterate and the oppressed," the cardinal added.

Hindus comprise 80% of India's 1 billion people. Muslims comprise 13.4%.

Before his address on Sunday, Cardinal Dias presided over the farewell Eucharist concelebrated by 18 bishops. Members of the Ecumenical Fellowship of Bishops and personalities who are actively involved in interfaith dialogue were also present.[/quote]
"India needs Christ" according to Cardinal Dias.

Like Mother Teresa, the Church serves India through her social witness. You don't have to get out on the street with a cardboard sign draped over yourself, like Budge apparantly does, to witness to Jesus Christ. Cardinal Dias realizes that the Church must be Christ to the poorest of the poor, and that involves sincerity and respect. Charity is not a means to trick people into Christianity. They will know we are Christians by our love, and the only authentic method of evangelization is sincere friendship with every nation of peoples.

Cardinal Dias, and Pope Benedict who appointed him, know what they're doing. Budge doesn't even believe Catholicism is Christian. It's not even worth it to give him or his threads the time of day.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Era Might

[Budge]

Ah Era has to deny even a pictjure right in front of his eyes.

Heres the latest...according to the Vatican preaching the gospel is bad, they have now fully merged with the liberal COMMIE WCC in denouncing preaching the gospel. NWO workers for the antichrist.



[quote]
Quote:Hindu American Foundation Welcomes Statement on Conversions by Vatican and World Council of Churches



THE HINDU AMERICAN FOUNDATION - June 2, 2006 - WASHINGTON D.C –
The Hindu American Foundation today welcomed a statement that was the outcome of an inter-faith dialogue organized by the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, Vatican City (the Vatican), and the Office on Inter-religious Relations & Dialogue of the World Council of Churches, Geneva (the WCC).

The inter-faith meeting was entitled, “Conversion: Assessing the Reality”, and met in Lariano, Italy on May 12-16, 2006. The meeting was attended by representatives of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and the Yoruba religion.

The participants affirmed that while everyone has a right to invite others to an understanding of their faith, it should not be exercised by violating other's rights and religious sensibilities.
[size=5]
Delegates agreed that freedom of religion enjoins upon everyone the equally non-negotiable responsibility to respect, and never to denigrate, vilify or misrepresent others’ faiths for the purpose of affirming superiority of one’s own beliefs.

The statement also called upon everyone “to heal themselves from the obsession of converting others.”[/size]
[/quote]

[url="http://www.hinduamericanfoundation.org/media_press_release_wcc.htm"]READ HERE: HINDUS ARE VERY PLEASED BY VATICAN[/url]

Era Might you are wrong and preaching the heresy of the social gospel. Charity work is done by endless numbers of athiest social workers in America...

Havent you read the BIBLE AT ALL?

Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Obviously this Cardinal, the WCC and the Vatican DONT BELIEVE THAT.

They arent Christian and have condemned themselves by their own words.
_________________

Edited July 10, 2006 by Budge

[the_rev]

[quote]They arent Christian and have condemned themselves by their own words.[/quote]

I met a Pentecostal yesterday, he told me he believed everything in the bible, was truth. I asked him why he wasn't Catholic.

The Catholic holds the fullness of truth. He contradicted himself. Thus many people do it without even knowing that they are.

[Budge]

[quote]

I met a Pentecostal yesterday, he told me he believed everything in the bible, was truth. I asked him why he wasn't Catholic.

The Catholic holds the fullness of truth. He contradicted himself. Thus many people do it without even knowing that they are.[/quote]

Keep telling yourself that why one of the heads of a PONTIFICAL council burns incense to Ganesha.

I know the Cognitive Dissonance has got to be harsh, but come on just try and ask yourself if you were in front of Jesus Christ, how He would feel about YOU whipping out a burning stick to pay homage to the Hindu ELEPHANT god?

At least most Pentes would be able to understand that a church leader doing that was total APOSTASTY and that he should be removed from his post for THAT ALONE.

What do I have here but most Catholics excusing it?

The whole "fullness of truth" thing is a phrase that advances "half truths" How many Catholics believe false religions not to be lies of Satan but merely deficient versions of the truth?

Edited July 10, 2006 by Budge

[veni]

Even though it isnt something I would do, lets take it easy on him. The incense offered I'm sure wasn't meant in his heart to be a form of worship or saying Christ and "so and so" are equals. What about all the times JP2 prayed with other world religious leaders (were they all praying to the same God or different gods and powers?), or when he prayed with budhists in front of budha statues, or the time he kissed the Koran? And the Cardinal placed the incense at a Christian-Hindu seminar, so its not like something he does everyday. And like Paul says in Acts to the Greeks who worshipped many gods, but had one temple dedicated to the "unknown" god (who was supposedly more powerful or some mysterious leader of the other gods); he told them that that unknown god they worshipped was really Jesus. In their minds, the fulness of those other gods combined. So this is how I believe the Hindus perceive our God in the deepest part of their souls. And when they enter Heaven, (if they truly try to follow the faith they know) then they will realize that all these little Hindu gods are nothing more than Christ in his totality. And I think the cardinal realizes this also. And that it is our responsibilty to bring that truth to them. But how can you reveal to them that Gesha and all the other gods are summed up in Christ, if you don't love them and serve them. Cause its really by our actions, backed with love, that lead others closer to Christ. Not declaring dogma and damnation. What Would Jesus Do? As Bl. Mother Teresa said

"A Catholic must be a good Catholic,
A Muslim must be a good Muslim,
And a Hindu must be a good Hindu"

Just ponder Christ and His Love.

[Era Might]

Veni,

Don't even bother. Budge isn't interested in the truth. He just wants to whine until someone gives him his binky.

[Mateo el Feo]

I'm offended by large fonts.

BTW, regarding this quote (I'll remove the big fonts):
[quote]Cardinal Ivan Dias, archbishop of Mumbai, who takes on a coveted office in the Vatican on Tuesday, stressed that all the health, educational and social projects of the Catholic Church in India had 'no ulterior motives of conversions'.[/quote]
Is this a problem for a non-Catholic Christian? Must one withhold feeding the hungry or clothing the naked until a potential for conversion exists? Christ did not command the corporal works of mercy ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm#v31"]cf. Matthew 25:31-46[/url]) so that others might be converted. He commanded these things so that we might imitate Him, and be converted [i]ourselves[/i]!

People have it backwards when they only act with Christian love when they think they can convert someone, and cease being Christian when the likelihood of conversion is reduced or removed.

[OLAM Dad]

If the Catholic Church was really interested in one universal religion disinterested in what believers really believe, why are we the ONLY church which requires that a convert go through a quite lengthly RCIA program? Why are we the only one that allows only Catholics in a state of grace to receive communion?

Edited July 10, 2006 by OLAM Dad