Satanism

[Budge]

[quote]
Simply because the devil despises the holy Catholic Church, and wherever there is great good the devil wants to destroy it. When you are Catholic the supernatural and the natural world are very real, you don't even have to read about it. I have witnessed dark and awful things growing up in Italy. Many of my close friends became real satanists (as opposed to trendy ones trying to make a statement against the religion of their great-grandparents). A few were exorcised eventually but one did die in it. (R.I.P) Demons tremble at the sight of the cross and are tortured by exorcists. They hate our Church and can never be a part of it, although they try to infiltrate all the time.

The dark societies trying to unify the world’s religions and corrupt our Church will never ever succeed.

“et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam”, from Matthew 16:18. Now that's something worth reading.[/quote]

Jesus never taught the more evil a church, the more "true" and "good" it is.

He taught us to judge by the fruits.

[size=5]Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [/size]

You basically are SAYING THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF what Jesus taught.




[quote]The dark societies trying to unify the world’s religions [/quote]

Youre kidding right...

Your POPE is working HARD to unify the world's religions...

[size=5]I got a message for Lahecil..[/size]

Youre playing with fire dear and stuff youre too young to be messing with and that definitely will lead you into the grasp of Satan and his demons.

[quote]Crowley was TOO Pagan (he believed in human {infant} sacrafice), i have a spell of his for asteral projection that includes parts of an infant(no i never tried it). those who chose wicca thought crowley was too brutal.[/quote]

I found this on your site.

[url="http://myspace.com/lahecil"]http://myspace.com/lahecil[/url]

None of your pals here have any discernment to warn you that messing with witchcraft is wrong and even the WHITE variety leads right to the doorstep of Satan. That Crowley LITE is evil as well..which is what youre trying to push right on your website.

They are too busy being politically correct and playing at interreligious diaglogue to tell you the truth...

It is not too late to repent.

By the way I knew you were into stuff, just from reading your posts here.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Budge

[Dave]

Budge, apparently you forget that Jesus told His apostles (and thus all His Church) that if they were hated, the world hated Him first. Satan and the world hate the Catholic Church!

And look at the good fruits the Catholic Church has wrought over the past 2000 years -- so many saints and martyrs and leading people to Christ! And don't cite all these statistics about pedophile priests, heresy, etc. Jesus said the weeds and the wheat would coexist until the end of time. You apparently think that if there's even just one weed then it's proof of the Church's "bad fruits." The Church is holy; that doesn't mean every single member will be.

As for the pope trying to unify the world's religions, he's trying to bring all the world to Christ and His Church. And THEN all people will be truly one body in Christ -- true unity.

You have been corrected on these things many times already. You must be happy believing false things about God and His Church rather than knowing the truth. That's your prerogative. But mark my words -- on Judgment Day, when you appear before the Lord, and he confronts you about your insistence on believing and spreading lies about Him and His Church, you won't be able to plead ignorance!

[misereremi]

[quote name='Budge' post='1023773' date='Jul 13 2006, 09:26 PM']
Youre kidding right...

Your POPE is working HARD to unify the world's religions...
[/quote]
Maybe one day you will become a Catholic. Preghero' per te.

[Jaime]

[quote name='pyranima' post='1023648' date='Jul 13 2006, 11:06 AM']
nonsense, you cannot be a Wiccan and a Pagan "no man can serve two masters"
you cannot server God and Satan
[/quote]

I think you meant you cannot be a Catholic and a pagan (or wiccan)

Wiccans are pagans.

Just on typo alert today!!

[Lahecil]

Woah, hey now...I'm not Catholic, just Wiccan. I joined the boards because the person I've chosen to spend my life with is Catholic and I respect him and am interested in his beliefs. So I'm here to learn.

Let me first make it VERY clear that I am not proselytizing for Wicca, as such a thing is against my own beliefs and is strictly taboo in the Wiccan society.

Point number one: Wicca is considered a pagan religion.
Point number two: I don't do very many spells, but I'm sure I can understand their workings better than you Budge, no offense meant there, as I have felt and experienced the energy coursing through me. And I've been successful in a variety of spells, ranging from healing to prosperity. I can also assure you that there is no such thing as "White" and "Black" Magick (I use the "k" to distinguish what I practice from stage magic, an idea which was, yes, implemented by Crowley). There is merely energy that can be used for different ends. As I've said, all Wiccans are bound by the Rede, and don't harm others, particularly through magick. Most Wiccans believe in karma, and some the Three-fold rule. Please note this makes sure that I don't sacrifice any infants in rituals, not only because I feel it is wrong, but because I'd hate to reap the bad karma from killing a defenseless baby for no reason other than to further power.
Point number three: Budge, I know what I'm dealing with. I realize I'm only 16, I do. I also realize I haven't had much time to read books, explore religions, and debate different theologies. I was embraced by the God and Goddess even while being raised Christian...I was always Wiccan. I can't "repent" when I haven't done anything wrong.
Point number four: My myspace buddies create a very wide cross-section of religions. I've got quite a few Wiccans, Christians, Jews, atheists...you name it. If we all began trying to convert one another, think of what a mess it would be!
Pont number five: You can't have a conversation about Wicca without bringing up Gardner, and I'm the only one who mentioned him so far. Sure, Crowley played a big part in bringing modern occult to light...but Gardner set the stage for what Wicca is today.

If you want me to start throwing quotes around, I will. But it won't mean a thing if no one's listening.

I don't really mind if anyone here thinks I'm worshipping Satan, I don't mind being told what Catholicism is all about either (even from you Budge), no matter how directed at converting me it is. I still intend on practicing my religion in peace. It's also a bit flattering to see how much everyone here cares about my eternal soul. Just know that I will also defend my religion to the death. I would also defend your right to speak freely about your's.

I may only be 16, but God has spoken to me, and both she and he have blessed me.

I'm terribly sorry if this post upsets anyone. There's no malice intended here, and I don't mean to incite any anger either.

[Budge]

well Im glad you answered my questions.

Some others here were assuming you were a Catholic.

There many Catholics dabbling in New Age and even Wicca, here is a catholic written book that warns about that.

[img]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/089283756X.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img]
A

Im afraid that you probably wont hear the real truth about witchcraft here, so yes I didnt beat around the bush, I came out and told you what witchcraft is. I used to a member of one of the most pagan churches on earth--dabbling in Wicca myself. Nothing you are telling me about your spellcasting or rest is anything new. I know Wiccan and paganism personally draws in MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, especially today as people have departed from God, and young people are brought up with no Biblical foundation.

And no you dont know what youre dealing with because the ENERGY that you speak of...

this is Satan hissing in your ear just like Adam and Eve, offering them "power too" and to be as god....

This energy you speak of... [quote]I have felt and experienced the energy coursing through me. [/quote] is not of a natural source it is of a supernatural source, it is of Satan or one of his demons. Remember in the Bible, there were magicians and witches too, and they always came under the condemnation of God. This doesnt mean you cannot repent as I did. One can become completely free in Jesus Christ even of witchcraft and repent of these past sins.

I was drawn into the occult by age 12 by a book called the [i]POWER OF WITCHCRAFT[/i]. Yvonne and Gavin Frost, nothing you talk about is anything new. All the power of witchcraft, both black and white magic, comes from the same source.

Im going to be blunt with you, witchcraft will bring evil into your life, the deeper you go the more it will bring pain, even sickness and destruction. You are open to demonic forces that will use you to their own advantage.

You can choose to ignore my warnings or not. That will be your choice, but it is your eternal soul at risk. I am not doing this to "win", Im doing it because I dont want another person going to hell because of the lies theyve been told.

I doubt the folks here who are more focused on being politically correct, will tell you the truth. They couldnt even discern that an occultist was in their midst. It seems for the average guy the statement "Blessed Be" would be enough...

Here is a site for you to go to, check out some of the essays...

[url="http://www.exwitch.org/mambo/index.php"]EX WITCH MINISTRIES[/url]


[size=5]
"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,[/size] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God." -Deuteronomy 18:10-13

[url="http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/wicca_witchcraft.htm"]READ ARTICLE ABOUT WICCA HERE[/url]

[DAF]

Budge, did it ever occur to you that perhaps your agressiveness is turning people away from Jesus? That's been my experience with your type. Don't mean to generalize, but it's just what I've seen.

Lahecil, while I may not approve of what you're doing, and am genuinely worried for you, I appreciate your honesty and openness to learning about the Catholic Faith. I really wish (and pray) that all occultists were as level headed as you seem to be. You'll be in my prayers!

[Budge]

As I said in the above, too many of you are more concerned about being politically correct then you are about warning anyone in the occult.

Some see the gospel and those who warn folks of the reality of hell as "offensive".

Im glad someone warned me and told me the truth... and I did my Christian duty warning her...if you think thats a BAD thing, I cant help you there.

[size=5]Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?[/size]

[Socrates]

No one can be at the same time a faithful Catholic and a Wiccan. The Catholic Church has always condemned the practices of all forms of paganism and sorcery.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

[quote]2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.[/quote]

Budge, maybe it's time you payed some attention to what the Catholic Church actually teaches, rather than what you wrongly claim it teaches. Your persistant misrepresentation of the Church is not helping your purpose any, and just makes you look bad. Even your good protestant brother "jesuspaidtheprice" said that you've made an ass of yourself on here.

[quote]I doubt the folks here who are more focused on being politically correct, will tell you the truth. They couldnt even discern that an occultist was in their midst.[/quote]
This little dig was completely uncalled for. Many of us here want nothing to do with being "politically correct."

[DAF]

[quote]As I said in the above, too many of you are more concerned about being politically correct then you are about warning anyone in the occult.

Some see the gospel and those who warn folks of the reality of hell as "offensive".

Im glad someone warned me and told me the truth... and I did my Christian duty warning her...if you think thats a BAD thing, I cant help you there. [/quote]

I don't think I appreciate your obnoxiousness. I was trying to be charitable with you and clearly you're unable to restrain your sarcasm.

I was merely saying that your agressive approach to proselytization is probably doing more harm than good, no matter where your intentions may be. I was not being malicious, simply offering constructive criticism.

On a personal note, I think you're a very unpleasant human being.

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Budge' post='1023842' date='Jul 13 2006, 03:21 PM']

Some others here were assuming you were a Catholic.

[/quote]

You were the one who erroneously remarked that she said she was a Catholic.

[quote]Budge, did it ever occur to you that perhaps your agressiveness is turning people away from Jesus? That's been my experience with your type. Don't mean to generalize, but it's just what I've seen.[/quote]

My problem with someone like Budge isn't so much his/her zeal, but their general level of ignorance, though I don't doubt that the two are related (i.e. one makes up their lack of knowledge through zeal).

For example, in this instance we are to believe that Budge is suppose to be some expert on witchcraft because he/she read a book at 12 and became a Wiccan. I have reason to suspect that this is a kind of self-proclaimed expertise because of his/her woeful understanding of Catholicism.

[Budge]

Justified Saint, every post you put up is Catholic Apologist technique #3...

Another know-it-all who considers calling others "ignorant" successful debate who only shows themselves never able to actually deal with the issues at hand and WHO ALWAYS without hesistation turns the topic personal to the messenger?

So are you going to warn her about witchcraft or continue your attacks on the messenger?

Three of you, all mad, that someone would dare speak out against witchcraft and warning a woman against witchcraft...

thats sad...

Dont see any of the rest of you stepping up to warn her.

Youre all outraged because youre so indoctrinated into PCness, you are horrified that someone may preach Christianity against the Universalist gospel.

You have to prove youre all one happy unified family even with occultists.

[quote]
No one can be at the same time a faithful Catholic and a Wiccan. The Catholic Church has always condemned the practices of all forms of paganism and sorcery.
[/quote]

I dont see any condemnation here, just intense lukewarmness and anger at a woman who would dare warn someone away from witchcraft. I suppose this means youre not following that "official" teaching.

The rest of you arent any help to her whatsoever.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Budge

[DAF]

Okay, I'll warn her, Budge style: "You're going to Hell unless you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Here, read this piece of grabage website. Oh, here's a Bible verse. Let that marinate." How'd I do?

What I'm trying to convey is that the way you're doing it, the more effort you give the more it's going to turn her off. It's self defeating. I say that in love and humility.

I don't think JS was being self righteous, he was being honest. Frankly I think you're ignorant too.



[quote]Youre all outraged because youre so indoctrinated into PCness, you are horrified that someone may preach Christianity against the Universalist gospel.[/quote]
Budge, I think you're blinded by your hatred for what you've deemed to be the Whore of Babylon (the Church) or maybe you're just honestly in the dark, probably a little of both.

We've been open to what you've said, and I think most of us have been very charitable. I think it would only be proper for you to try to extend some courtesy.

[quote]I dont see any condemnation here[/quote]
Clearly you're not looking.

Edited July 14, 2006 by DAF

[Budge]

Youre being dishonest becuase that is not how I warned her.

I shared my own personal experience and more.

You all can focus on how "mean" I am instead of even attempting to warn a young girl about witchcraft but I do see that as the cowards way out.

[DAF]

Budge, you're missing the point. I'm offering you advice for future proselytization and you're cloaking it as dancing around the truth.

It's true that she shouldn't be getting into wicca and the occult, but she's not going to listen to anybody who just patronizes her.

I don't think you're mean, just agressively ignorant. That's not necessarily an insult (it's not meant to be anyway), it's just what I think you are.

Anyway, picking on budge isn't the purpose of this thread, so let's talk about the occult.