Tarcisius Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Its not that God is doing that to us, we do it to ourself when we sin. It is our sins that are being purged. For me to be made perfect i would need to die to myself to my desires. What i dont accomplish on earth, will, if I am worthy be accomplished in purgatory. You make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Its not that God is doing that to us, we do it to ourself when we sin. It is our sins that are being purged. For me to be made perfect i would need to die to myself to my desires. What i dont accomplish on earth, will, if I am worthy be accomplished in purgatory. You make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Its not that God is doing that to us, we do it to ourself when we sin. It is our sins that are being purged. For me to be made perfect i would need to die to myself to my desires. What i dont accomplish on earth, will, if I am worthy be accomplished in purgatory. You make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Its not that God is doing that to us, we do it to ourself when we sin. It is our sins that are being purged. For me to be made perfect i would need to die to myself to my desires. What i dont accomplish on earth, will, if I am worthy be accomplished in purgatory. You make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarcisius Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Its not that God is doing that to us, we do it to ourself when we sin. It is our sins that are being purged. For me to be made perfect i would need to die to myself to my desires. What i dont accomplish on earth, will, if I am worthy be accomplished in purgatory. You make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Better be careful with that reply button, you got 3 repeats up. Y[quote]ou make it seem as though the pain and suffering is an insurmountable evil that God would not inflict. Its just pain, no matter how bad, anyone who knew anything about it would gladly suffer it a million years to experience the beatific vision. God loves us so dearly that he would take the time to purge us of our weaknesses instead of giving up on us.[/quote] I dont know to be honest with you, your god scares me, and I dont mean in the good biblical way but that in I definitely see him as a cruel ogre. That is not a god I could love. I love the One True God beyond anything, even beyond my most loving human relationships. Do you know this love or do you see God as just one to make you suffer? Thats not love. A million years of suffering? I dont think even the worlds worst masochist would want to sign up for that. If you do not become born again, eternal suffering beyond that of a million years may be where you end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1040956' date='Aug 10 2006, 03:20 PM'] You just wrote that Purgatory has suffering 10 times worse then Earth. why would God do that to any of us? That means Purgatory is ten times worth then dying of cancer and having your bones rot within you. Have you ever seen anyone die? it is not a pretty sight. To believe in a God, that would make that 10s worse for some idea of "purificiation" is horrendous and it is also unscriptural. [font="Lucida Console"] Hbr 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [/font] [font="Lucida Console"] Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when [b]he had by himself purged our sins,[/b] sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/font] Jesus Christ came to save us. It is SATAN that wants you to suffer. [/quote] First off, I don't think purgatory is worse than any earthly pain. I think it's better...not lighter, necessarily, but better, because you are filled with a hope greater than any hope on earth. Also, again, purgatory is NOT God punishing people for their sins. Purgatory is God perfecting His people with the fires of His love. Finally, yes, Jesus came to save us. He saves us by taking away the guilt of our sins and by removing us from the sins to which we cling. Even though I may go and steal something, and repent, I may still have an inclination to stealing things...it may cross my mind...I may think about it a bit...etc. Jesus not only wants us to be free of our sins, but to be cleansed of anything that distracts us from Him, namely, our attachment to the world and the sins of the world. Purgatory does even MORE than Protestants want to be done to them. It detaches us from the world and from sins so that we have no desire to do anything but please God. Forgiveness alone doesn't take away the desire to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1041001' date='Aug 10 2006, 01:53 PM'] Better be careful with that reply button, you got 3 repeats up. Y I dont know to be honest with you, your god scares me, and I dont mean in the good biblical way but that in I definitely see him as a cruel ogre. That is not a god I could love. I love the One True God beyond anything, even beyond my most loving human relationships. Do you know this love or do you see God as just one to make you suffer? Thats not love. A million years of suffering? I dont think even the worlds worst masochist would want to sign up for that. If you do not become born again, eternal suffering beyond that of a million years may be where you end up. [/quote] We have the same God. We (Catholics) are Christians too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Anothony Im not sure about that. God will welcome me home when I die... The Catholic god according to Catholic teachings will SEND You to FIRE. [quote] Purgatory is God perfecting His people with the fires of His love.[/quote] Being sent to FIRE when you DIE is NOT A GOOD THING. [font="Arial Black"]Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Budge, hows it going? We must remember that not even the most enlightened Catholic on earth has a definite idea of the triumph of heaven, let alone on the concept of purgatory. It is a part of Catholic theology but it is more of an important sidenote than an essential dogma. The catechism itself does not go into great detail about its logistics, because we simply do not know enough about it (purgatory and even heaven to some extent). We can understand the underlying facts about it, and its purpose but how that purpose is brought about is still an uknown. For all we know it may only last a split second as when one dies his reality fundementally changes. Nor does it cheapen or dismiss the ultimate sacrifice of our blessed Lord on the Cross, that is for the forgiveness of sins and our salvation, purgatory does not save only prepare. Much like on earth we need to prepare for Christ our hearts if they are not fully prepared to experience Christ in his fullness in heaven (as we may be tainted with our sinful nature and imperfections) Christ must help prepare us for that. It may not even be painful, we simply dont know. however, there is an ancient Catholic tradition that there is some sort of pain attached with this preparing step in our journey. My assumption is that it comes from on earth where man must suffer often to be brought closer to Christ and rid himself of his imperfections, or at least deal with them. So perhaps our forefathers assumed that this would also be a reality in our death as nothing imperfect can enter heaven (see letter to the Hebrews), and when we die we are obvisiouly not perfect thus something has to happen to make us perfect whether it is painful or not is a matter of debate and whether it is instant or a set term is unknown, much like how we know heaven is eternal but we really cannot fathom it in our mortal minds. nor even begin to understand how it works. It is like trying to fit the ocean in a pail. -Crusader_4 (William) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyranima Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1041682' date='Aug 11 2006, 03:52 PM'] Anothony Im not sure about that. God will welcome me home when I die... The Catholic god according to Catholic teachings will SEND You to FIRE. Being sent to FIRE when you DIE is NOT A GOOD THING. [font="Arial Black"]Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.[/font] [/quote]you are not being cast into the lake of fire 1 cor 3:13each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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