reliance on mary

[Budge]

[quote]All grace comes from Christ through Mary.[/quote]

That is totally wrong.

No where does the Bible say that Mary is the middleman {woman} for God's Grace.

Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator.

[quote]8) Leo XIII, Parta humano generi, Apostolic Letter, Sept 8, 1901, ASS 34, 1901, 195.

So may the most powerful Virgin Mother, who once 'cooperated in love that the faithful might be born in the Church', be even now the means and mediatrix of our salvation. [Citing St. Augustine, De sancta Virginitate 6.][/quote]



No links or pics from chick trash -cmom

[Seven77]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046566' date='Aug 20 2006, 05:54 AM']
That is totally wrong.

No where does the Bible say that Mary is the middleman {woman} for God's Grace.

Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator.


No links or pics from chick trash -cmom
[/quote]

The Bible says Grace and Truth came from Jesus. Jesus was born of Mary (God sent His Son, born of a woman). Therefore we can say grace comes to us through Mary. Our one Mediator and High Priest was sent to us by God through Mary's womb.

Peace.

[Norseman82]

Budge,

Read Revelations 6:9-11 (assuming it also hasn't been excised from the Cliff's Notes version of the bible). The dead martyrs are crying out to God from under the altar for vendeance on earth fo rtheir martyrdom. And God is answering them. So dead people in Heaven are able to pray for us.

[peep]

I'm not realy praying for Mary's help, I'm praying or God's help through Mary.


I dunno if she can here my prayers. Thats a ponderable question...
Most of the time I think she can, however.

[Budge]

[quote]I'm not realy praying for Mary's help, I'm praying or God's help through Mary.[/quote]

Why not approach the throne yourself?
[font="Arial Black"]
Hbr 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.[/font][size=4]

[quote]
I dunno if she can here my prayers. Thats a ponderable question...
Most of the time I think she can, however[/quote]

With God you can be sure....Mary cannot hear you, she is a human being and doesnt even have the "mind" to hear a million Hail Marys at once. If she can, that means you have just given her the qualities of a goddess.

Remember what Jesus taught about Mary..

[b]Luk 11:27 ¶ And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed [is] the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it.[/b]

Pray to God, not to Mary.

[brendan1104]

See post #39.

Edited August 31, 2006 by brendan1104

[Budge]

Woman...

Ever noticed in the Bible that Jesus NEVER calls Mary...

MOTHER?

{and that verse is about him turning Mary over to the care of John}

[brendan1104]

See post below.

Edited August 31, 2006 by brendan1104

[brendan1104]

[b]Protestant's Objection:[/b]
Catholics pay too much attention to Mary/shouldn't be devoted to her. She's not really our Mother.

[b]Scriptural "Proof":[/b]
"And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee smell of elderberries. But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it." - Luke, 11:27, 28

[b]Catholic's Answer:[/b]
We can never pay too much attention to the Mother of our Lord, nor not be devoted to her. Marian devotion is scriptural:

[b]Scriptural Proof:[/b]
"And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord."
- Luke, 1:45

"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women"
- Luke, 1:28

"And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
- Luke, 1:42, 43

"When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: [u]Woman, behold thy son.[/u] After that, he saith to the disciple: [u]Behold thy mother.[/u] [u]And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.[/u]"
- John, 19:26

Edited August 31, 2006 by brendan1104

[Fides_et_Ratio]

We can't love Mary more than HE does.
[img]http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/images/heart.jpg[/img]

[Budge]

Im sure Jesus loves the real Mary too, same as he loves his other children.

Mary is NOT God, she cant hear you. She cannot grant you protection, comfort or spiritual food, only God can.
[quote]
Protestant's Objection:
Catholics pay too much attention to Mary/shouldn't be devoted to her. She's not really our Mother.

Scriptural "Proof":
"And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee smell of elderberries. But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it." - Luke, 11:27, 28[/quote]

Yeah blessed are they who hear the Word of God, and keep it, Ie: DO NOT worship any other and Jesus is the ONLY mediator.
[quote]
Catholic's Answer:
We can never pay too much attention to the Mother of our Lord, nor not be devoted to her. Marian devotion is scriptural:

Scriptural Proof:
"And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord."
- Luke, 1:45
[/quote]

She is blessed. the real Mary of the Bible was a humble lady who did Gods Will, she was not a high-minded figure showing up in a Roman Toga, demanding that shrines and churches be built to her.[quote]


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women"
- Luke, 1:28[/quote]

Do you all pray to Jael?

[size=5]Jdg 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.[/size]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1056015' date='Sep 3 2006, 01:03 PM']
Im sure Jesus loves the real Mary too, same as he loves his other children.

Mary is NOT God, she cant hear you. She cannot grant you protection, comfort or spiritual food, only God can.
Yeah blessed are they who hear the Word of God, and keep it, Ie: DO NOT worship any other and Jesus is the ONLY mediator.
She is blessed. the real Mary of the Bible was a humble lady who did Gods Will, she was not a high-minded figure showing up in a Roman Toga, demanding that shrines and churches be built to her.

Do you all pray to Jael?

[size=5]Jdg 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.[/size]
[/quote]
You have no clue who in heaven can hear us or who cannot, or what blessings God allows them to bestow. We worship God, we venerate His Children as examples.
Do you worship a book?

[Budge]

[quote]You have no clue who in heaven can hear us or who cannot, or what blessings God allows them to bestow. [/quote]

Yes I do, Gods Word tell us that they cannot hear us.

[quote]For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; [size=5]neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.[/size]
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (KJV)[/quote]

[quote]
Do you worship a book?[/quote]

Nope, my Bibles are pretty ratty, and never are held aloft with incense given to them.

[img]http://www.byzantines.net/liturgy/pictures/blessedTheKingdom.jpg[/img]

[CoffeeCatholic]

[quote name='Budge' post='1054544' date='Aug 31 2006, 03:22 PM']
Woman...

Ever noticed in the Bible that Jesus NEVER calls Mary...

MOTHER?

{and that verse is about him turning Mary over to the care of John}
[/quote]

The english translation does Jesus' use of the word "Woman" no good. To us, it's almost an insult. But the original word in the original language was the most honorable title that Jesus could have given His mother. By calling her woman He was honoring her above all others. If Jesus did it, shouldn't we?