Protestantism denies the divinity of Christ

[thessalonian]

[quote]One thing that ecumenical Prots are duped about is all those teachings about the Popes holding temporal power over the world and over souls are still in place.

Jesus is the head of my church, not a fallible man claiming the title Vicar of Christ. [/quote]

Dear fallible Moses,

So what do you have to say about God screwing up and having Dathan and Korah swallowed up by the earth in and earthquake when they decided not to follow you through the desert. After all they said they wanted to follow God their way. It should have been just fine, since we're not supposed to follow men and Jesus being God and all is the head of the Church.

False dichotomy number 246.

[Eutychus]

[quote]
If Christ established his Church (Catholic Church) and gaurenteed it would not be overcome by the gates of hell but the church evolved into all these things that the protestants consider Christ never intended (magisterium, papal infalibility, true presesnce in the Eucharist) then that would mean Christ screwed up. [/quote]

IF....

He didn't.

Problem solved.

Theologians got many things wrong. You just listed a few important ones....

[curtins]

So you're saying Christ didn't establish a church?

[Eutychus]

[quote] So you're saying Christ didn't establish a church?[/quote]

Have you read Acts and Revelation?

I count MANY "churches"...each so distinctively unique, that in Jesus's letter to the CHURCH[b][u]-ES [/u][/b]of Asia { note he did NOT address his letter to the CHURCH in Asia } each was seperate, having different issues, strengths and weaknesses.

So, NO.

Christ did NOT establish a denomination.

Church = Ekklesia = [u]Called out ONES [/u]{ note it refers to PEOPLE, not ORGANIZATION.}

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044259' date='Aug 15 2006, 05:51 PM']

Christ did NOT establish a denomination.

[/quote]

I agree Christ did NOT establish a denomination.

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044259' date='Aug 15 2006, 05:51 PM']

Church = Ekklesia = [u]Called out ONES [/u]{ note it refers to PEOPLE, not ORGANIZATION.}

[/quote]

I agree the Church are the called out ones who are people..... The question from a strong
analysis and reverence of the Word of God is are the called out ONES to be one body
in Christ?? I think yes from Christ's prayer to the Father that they may all be one and Paul's
analysis of one body in Christ in Corinthians.... So, each called out ONE in their ecclesial
community is called to make the body more whole.... So, let's heal divisions of race, denomination, sect,
school, etc.... The Catholic Church also has many people fighting over what the Church should be instead of
how they can better be salt and light and Christ to a broken world.....
Many evangelicals don't ponder how to bring greater visibility to their own unity of belief....Should there be so many varieties of Baptists??? It's something we can all work at.... Through Christ's love, Christ who calls us to forgive and to love
our enemies, even Christians who have hurt us, we can grow in wholeness and bring honor and glory
to God by becoming more Christlike!

Love you brother!

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044259' date='Aug 15 2006, 05:51 PM']
Have you read Acts and Revelation?

I count MANY "churches"...each so distinctively unique, that in Jesus's letter to the CHURCH[b][u]-ES [/u][/b]of Asia { note he did NOT address his letter to the CHURCH in Asia } each was seperate, having different issues, strengths and weaknesses.

So, NO.

Christ did NOT establish a denomination.

Church = Ekklesia = [u]Called out ONES [/u]{note it refers to PEOPLE, not ORGANIZATION.}
[/quote]

So, which one of these many churches is the one that Christ made the Peter the rock that it would be built on and would be protected against the gates of hell?

[Anomaly]

Probably the contextual definition of 'church' in this statement is broader than most Catholics are willing to consider.

[chris]

Yeah, A denomintation is various and/or detailed branches of Protestantism. These branches can also consist of a reformed branch of the original counterpart (I.E. Baptist or Reformed Baptist, OPC, Reformed Methodist, Reformed Lutheren.) All my life my father has taken me to a reformed church and pumped my head with the fact that we always need to be reformed and reforming. Such as the Anglican church being reformed Catholicism. But, is Protestant Christianity misleading itself so much in every denomniation that it requires being reformed? Recreated to suit the need of the church-goers? I asked those questions when I was still protestant, and I never got the answers that really seemed to suit the reason why every protestant institution needed to have some reformed branch. I think maybe thats the reason why Christ didnt establish a uniform denomination. But, he did establish a Church.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Convert4888

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1044419' date='Aug 16 2006, 05:37 AM']
Probably the contextual definition of 'church' in this statement is broader than most Catholics are willing to consider.
[/quote]


Well actually the Catholic Church does not just limit the Church to just baptized Catholics so no we are not unwilling to consider those who out of ignorance do not know that the Catholic Church is the fullness of the truth and therefore may be joined to her in that they have not willfully rejected her. We don't limit the Church to the visible Church like you limit it to the invisible, i.e. spiritual. The Church is body and spirit (it's the body of Christ ) just as Christ was body and spirit. But there has to be a visible body.

Tell me, what are the list of truths that set men free that are correct. What group are the absolute essentials out of the truths of the Bible and the ones that are optional? Are you qualified to make the declaration? Many protestants do. If you are not then who is?

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044259' date='Aug 15 2006, 04:51 PM']
Have you read Acts and Revelation?

I count MANY "churches"...each so distinctively unique, that in Jesus's letter to the CHURCH[b][u]-ES [/u][/b]of Asia { note he did NOT address his letter to the CHURCH in Asia } each was seperate, having different issues, strengths and weaknesses.

So, NO.

Christ did NOT establish a denomination.

Church = Ekklesia = [u]Called out ONES [/u]{ note it refers to PEOPLE, not ORGANIZATION.}
[/quote]

Eutychus, this is a clear case of both equivocation and false dichotomy. First, the way the term "church" is being used is clearly different, otherwise the Scripture would contradict itself. In the Gospels, Christ refers to his "church" (singular) against which the gates of hell shall not prevail, while in Revelation, as you point out, he speaks of "churches" (plural).

Was Christ confused about how many churches he was making? No, he was using the term "church" in different ways. In the first instance, he is speaking of the Church properly, while in the second, he is talking about individual churches as located in particular places and constituting specific local communities.

Ironically, it is only in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches, and not in Protestantism, that we see this ability to simultaneously refer to the Church proper and to particular local churches.

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1044296' date='Aug 15 2006, 09:55 PM']
So, which one of these many churches is the one that ........ would be protected against the gates of hell?
[/quote]

Just as an FYI.... We don't need protection from gates. We STORM gates!!!!!

Eg. Tollkien's LOTR



In Him.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Just as an FYI.... We don't need protection from gates. We STORM gates!!!!! [/quote]

Interesting, that no one, not ONE has taken up the challenge to do a study on GATES, what they do, what they mean in scripture, where they are mentioned otherwise, and WHAT Jesus was saying....and believe me, He was NOT saying the biggest "church/denomination" would be HIS...just READ the bible folks, everything, all of it, every last verse points to the opposite. At the time of His coming, HE SAID, "will there {even BE} faith left on the earth?"

The entire New Testament, all of it, points to the "church/large denomination" going "bad" and falling into apostacy, that is confirmed over and over, and reconfirmed in Revelation.

So, the twisted exegesis of Roman Catholics, about the "gates of hell not prevaling" cannot be substantiated inside of, and using only, this isolated verse.

Anyone ever hear of an exhaustive concordance? How about looking up gates, and seeing what other passages mean when that term and word is employed?

Does ANYONE here know how to work one?

[Justified Saint]

Given your hack job of the word "ekklesia" and your unwillingness to acknowledge critiques of it (like Jeff's), most people have very little faith in your ability to carry on an intelligent conversation (myself included). As it is, your posts are filled with assertion after assertion with no support.

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='Justified Saint' post='1045508' date='Aug 17 2006, 02:31 PM']
Given your hack job of the word "ekklesia" and your unwillingness to acknowledge critiques of it (like Jeff's), most people have very little faith in your ability to carry on an intelligent conversation (myself included). As it is, your posts are filled with assertion after assertion with no support.
[/quote]

AMEN!!!

I feel like this is similar to a "Where's Waldo" book, except where looking for any trace of truth. I haven't found it yet.

Edited August 17, 2006 by stbernardLT

[Justified Saint]

But we are also looking for Euty too (or Budge for that matter).

Whenever the flaming stops working and the serious rebuttals start piling up, you won't hear again from these two characters. It happens all the time and thus I suspect this thread is done precisely when the discussion has even a chance at being honest.

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045458' date='Aug 17 2006, 01:30 PM']
Anyone ever hear of an exhaustive concordance? How about looking up gates, and seeing what other passages mean when that term and word is employed?

Does ANYONE here know how to work one?
[/quote]

Sure. I've used them extensively... I agree that gates must be stormed!!...

So, how to do it and stay loyal to all of Scripture.... Clearly we have to look at Paul's teachings about church unity
in I Corinthians..... Anyways, each in our own station need to figure out how we can bring more unity and common
purpose incarnating Christ where we are.... Maybe that's bringing two aloof groups together in a bible church or
a Catholic parish, maybe it's healing a marriage, it certainly means spreading the gospel of Christ for the forgiveness
of sins throughout the world!!! In Him