Out & In ~ RCIA ~ Revolving Doors ~ Evangelism

[Eutychus]

As odd as this sounds, every Tuesday night I have dinner with the local RCIA director for two smaller parishes. As you might expect, the ongoing discussion is around the Roman church and what I have been discussing online for the past week.

Last tuesday, I was commenting to him, that our local church's new member class, which is hosted every other month, or six times a year, had 33 candidates, as I always do, I ask how many were formerly Roman Catholics, and in line with every other time for the past two years, 60% or thereabouts raised their hands. That means our ONE church is taking in over a hundred ex Roman Catholics a year, and that is only the ones that bother to join, as you know, many come for years and never formally join.

Now we are a decent sized church, evangelical/pentecostal/bible heavy, and we are in the same exact marketplace as my friend the RCIA director. He never believes it when we compare notes, since last year they had TWO candidates, and the year before one.

Interestingly enough, they appointed him Evangelism Major Domo { I really don't remember the title he used } this year too. So we were talking about Evangelism. Oddly, and sadly, the poor man didn't have a CLUE what evangelism WAS, other than to get back lapsed Roman Catholics into the pews. When I started teaching him that evangelism was going out, and getting converts for CHRIST, getting people saved, he gave me that patented "deer in the headlights look" that I always get from Romanists when you try and tell them that Christianity is not a church, but a message and a relationship.

Anyway, knowing he did not have any idea whatsoever what I was trying to communicate, I gave him some generic evangelism materials from this group, who NEVER not ONCE mention any denomination whatsoever in their evangelism efforts.

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/_images_icons/wotmr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/-images_all/evangelism.jpg[/img]

It should be interesting to see if:

One - he even bothered to look at the videos.

Two- he can understand that evangelism is not church growth.

Three- the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews.

[url="http://www.livingwaters.com/"]IF YOU WANT TO SEE THEM IN ACTION, CLICK HERE[/url]

Edited August 11, 2006 by Eutychus

[Mateo el Feo]

Is your patronizing tone a deliberate choice, or is it just the way you naturally relate to others?

[Era Might]

So your point is? ...Nevermind.

I don't even care enough to respond. Our Lord will always triumph. You can boast about who goes to your Church if it makes you feel good. My faith is in Christ, and you certainly aren't going to disturb it.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Era Might

[Resurrexi]

[quote] Nobody cares who goes to your Church, because Christ will triumph in the end. If his will is in you, so be it. If it is in the Catholic Church, so be it. [/quote]

His 'church' does not get a capital 'C'. Only the Holy Catholic Church whose current visible head is HH Pope Benedict XVI and the sui juris Churches within Her get a capital 'C'

[Era Might]

I'll capitalize who and what I please.

[Resurrexi]

well, it's incorrect and makes it look like you belive his 'church' is a sui juris Church in the Catholic Church or is the Holy Catholic Church Herself.

[Era Might]

Perhaps you should report me to my Bishop.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Era Might

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1041631' date='Aug 11 2006, 02:48 PM']
Perhaps you should report me to my Bishop.
[/quote]
oh....

[Eutychus]

[quote][u] Nobody cares who goes to your Church,[/u] because Christ will triumph in the end. If his will is in you, so be it. If it is in the Catholic Church, so be it.[/quote]

Apparently the 100+ ex catholics each year do....

... but hey, who cares about THEM?

After all they are lower than Muslims, Muslims are brothers in with the Catholic Church as evidenced by CCC #841, whereas ex-Catholics are just about the only ones that the Catholic Church still considers heretics.

I guess if we were Hindu or Buddhists, the pope would send us greetings each year, and invite us to pow-wows, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?



[quote]His 'church' does not get a capital 'C'. Only the Holy Catholic Church whose current visible head is HH Pope Benedict XVI and the sui juris Churches within Her get a capital 'C' [/quote]
[size=3][color="#660000"]
[b]OK, you can have the Captial C.[/b][/color][/size]

We will just take 15% of your members, each and every year, and consider it a fair trade, OK?




[quote] Is your patronizing tone a deliberate choice, or is it just the way you naturally relate to others?[/quote]

Five years of interacting online with hard core Catholics, I guess what you see is the residual from all the arrogance and PRIDE one continually encounters ... as I have ON THIS THREAD too...

[img]http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/sharky.gif[/img]


[size=4]WITH A [b]CAPITAL [u]"C"[/u] [/b]nevertheless![/size]

Edited August 11, 2006 by Eutychus

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041647' date='Aug 11 2006, 04:34 PM']Five years of interacting online with hard core Catholics, I guess what you see is the residual from all the arrogance and PRIDE one continually encounters ... as I have ON THIS THREAD too...[/quote]So your uncharitable behavior is the fault of Catholics?

[Eutychus]

[quote] So your uncharitable behavior is the fault of Catholics?[/quote]

Would it be terribly wrong for me to point out that YOU started the name calling?

[quote]Is your patronizing tone[/quote]

Just wondering, just wondering.

WITH A CAPITAL "C" of course!

Edited August 11, 2006 by Eutychus

[Mateo el Feo]

BTW, that Australian guy (pictured above) is one of so many evangelicals who use the "Amway" tactic of selling religion.

I find it interesting that Eutychus used the term "marketplace" to describe where he lives, as if we should treat our relationship with Jesus merely as a product that needs to be distributed to consumers.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041647' date='Aug 11 2006, 05:34 PM']Apparently the 100+ ex catholics each year do....[/quote]
They are in the hands of the living God. He will direct them and lead them as and when he sees fit. Your childish boasting is irrelevant to me. My faith is in God, not in how many people do or do not attend your Church.

For future reference, in your "evangelism" excursions, I suggest you not treat people like idiots. Treat us with respect and intelligence, and we will return the favor.

God bless.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Era Might

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041651' date='Aug 11 2006, 04:48 PM']
Would it be terribly wrong for me to point out that YOU started the name calling?
Just wondering, just wondering.[/quote]Patronizing isn't name-calling. It is a description.

If you'd like to focus on name-calling, let's start with your use of the term "Romanist."
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanist"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanist[/url]

[SJP]

Eutychus,

I'm sorry that you have had such a poor experience with Catholics in the past. But please don't allow those experiences to taint your view of every Catholic you ever encounter, that would be silly.

This is actually my first on-line encounter with a Protestant, can you honestly say that you have come here in a charitable loving manner? What kind of conclusions are we to draw about Protestants from your behaviour?

Perhaps you should consider the fact that you may be the only Protestant that many people ever have contact with.

In many of your posts it seems as if Catholics are the enemy, well if you honestly believe that, than so be it, but friend, please remember to love your enemy.

[Eutychus]

[quote]I'm sorry that you have had such a poor experience with Catholics in the past. But please don't allow those experiences to taint your view of every Catholic you ever encounter, that would be silly. [/quote]

My entire family is Roman Catholic, I went to Catholic Church schools from 1-12, so it isn't like I don't have some background here, beyond and extending past the online interactions.

[quote]Perhaps you should consider the fact that you may be the only Protestant that many people ever have contact with. [/quote]

That would be impossible, since I'm NOT a Protestant.

We don't protest anything, we did not split from anyone, and we don't have a reformation history to look towards.

By the way, MOST evangelicals and pentecostals are NOT protestants in the strict sense of the word.

[quote][u]This is actually my first on-line encounter with a Protestant, [/u]can you honestly say that you have come here in a charitable loving manner? What kind of conclusions are we to draw about Protestants from your behaviour? [/quote]

I suggest you get out more then.

Living in little islands of like minded people leads to many errors and is very constraining.

[Anomaly]

Eut,
I'm no longer 'Catholic', but sheesh. Come on man.
I taught Catholic kids for years and some didn't 'get it' and learn even the fundamental basics of theology and Christianity.
I don't want to be hurtful, but I recognize your style.

[Justified Saint]

And why exactly do you have dinner once a week with a RCIA director? Is it for the same reason that you come to this board?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041611' date='Aug 11 2006, 03:24 PM']
As odd as this sounds, every Tuesday night I have dinner with the local RCIA director for two smaller parishes. As you might expect, the ongoing discussion is around the Roman church and what I have been discussing online for the past week.

Last tuesday, I was commenting to him, that our local church's new member class, which is hosted every other month, or six times a year, had 33 candidates, as I always do, I ask how many were formerly Roman Catholics, and in line with every other time for the past two years, 60% or thereabouts raised their hands. That means our ONE church is taking in over a hundred ex Roman Catholics a year, and that is only the ones that bother to join, as you know, many come for years and never formally join.

Now we are a decent sized church, evangelical/pentecostal/bible heavy, and we are in the same exact marketplace as my friend the RCIA director. He never believes it when we compare notes, since last year they had TWO candidates, and the year before one.

Interestingly enough, they appointed him Evangelism Major Domo { I really don't remember the title he used } this year too. So we were talking about Evangelism. Oddly, and sadly, the poor man didn't have a CLUE what evangelism WAS, other than to get back lapsed Roman Catholics into the pews. When I started teaching him that evangelism was going out, and getting converts for CHRIST, getting people saved, he gave me that patented "deer in the headlights look" that I always get from Romanists when you try and tell them that Christianity is not a church, but a message and a relationship.

Anyway, knowing he did not have any idea whatsoever what I was trying to communicate, I gave him some generic evangelism materials from this group, who NEVER not ONCE mention any denomination whatsoever in their evangelism efforts.

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/_images_icons/wotmr.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.livingwaters.com/images/-images_all/evangelism.jpg[/img]

It should be interesting to see if:

One - he even bothered to look at the videos.

Two- he can understand that evangelism is not church growth.

Three- the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews.

[url="http://www.livingwaters.com/"]IF YOU WANT TO SEE THEM IN ACTION, CLICK HERE[/url]
[/quote]

So you are into the numbers game? I see that a lot in various denominations. Some of my fundamentalist friends have been thru 4-5 churches. Everytime they have a disagreement with the preacher they start a new group somewhere else.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1041807' date='Aug 11 2006, 09:40 PM']
So you are into the numbers game? I see that a lot in various denominations. Some of my fundamentalist friends have been thru 4-5 churches. Everytime they have a disagreement with the preacher they start a new group somewhere else.[/quote]Church-shopping is a pretty standard behavior among protestants. There are plenty of reasons for them to shop. For example:
1) When moving to a new town, they need to shop.
2) When the pastor takes a stand on a particular doctrine, a disagreement might lead to the need to shop (as a side note, one of the resultant hallmarks of the new bible-churches/non-denominational sects is the lack of doctrinal depth).
3) When there is a problem with the social identity of the church (e.g. getting along with the pastor or other members, differing musical tastes, too many old people, too many young people, etc), it's time to go shopping.
[quote name='Eutychus']That means our ONE church is taking in over a hundred ex Roman Catholics a year...[/quote]Here's the problem with your numbers. Many of those ex-Catholics fell away long ago. They may have been through orientation programs at multiple protestant churches before their latest denominational flavor of the month. Chances are, they have adopted the same pattern of behavior as I listed above.

The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?