Out & In ~ RCIA ~ Revolving Doors ~ Evangelism

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041700' date='Aug 11 2006, 05:30 PM']
My entire family is Roman Catholic, I went to Catholic Church schools from 1-12, so it isn't like I don't have some background here, beyond and extending past the online interactions.
That would be impossible, since I'm NOT a Protestant.

We don't protest anything, we did not split from anyone, and we don't have a reformation history to look towards.

By the way, MOST evangelicals and pentecostals are NOT protestants in the strict sense of the word.
I suggest you get out more then.

Living in little islands of like minded people leads to many errors and is very constraining.
[/quote]
Well, if they're not protestant, but they are Christian...then they would be Catholic...which I bet they'd disagree with even more...

[Jeff]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1041882' date='Aug 11 2006, 11:13 PM']

The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?
[/quote]

Ray Comfort, the creator of this website, is the first to point out that the overwhelming majority of people making a decision for Christ are nowhere to be found a year later.

[Eutychus]

[quote]
Ray Comfort, the creator of this website, is the first to point out that the overwhelming majority of people making a decision for Christ are nowhere to be found a year later. [/quote]

Agreed, and correct. { you must be watching the TV show, or have read the books...}

The reason is that the very motivation for conversion was improperly explained.

Essentially, people are being sold the lifestyle BENEFITS of being a Christian, instead of the post lifetime promise of NO HELL. Therefore, when the benefits promised fail to materialize, health, wealth, respect, and happiness...they fall away.

[CatholicCid]

Sorry to pop in, but I was just reading through this and thought it was somewhat interesting...

Though, I am somewhat lost... So what if the RCIA Class only has 1-2 people in it a year?
As you said "evangelism is not church growth" and "the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews."
Or, as Luke 15:7 put it, "I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance."

From the last two posts below (above?) it seems he might understand evagelization better then the source you gave him.

Edited August 12, 2006 by CatholicCid

[desertwoman]

Ray Comfort!!! He was my teacher at Coastal Carolina University!

He's a great great humble man who has been through alot. I miss him!!

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]The obvious un-asked question is, how quickly is your church's revolving door turning?[/quote]


[quote]Though, I am somewhat lost... So what if the RCIA Class only has 1-2 people in it a year?
As you said "evangelism is not church growth" and "the goal is salvation, not putting butts into the pews."[/quote]

Way to stick it to the man. I doubt he'll even respond to these, and if he does, without any depth. Especially to the point that he's tauting his growth, when he admits growth in itsef means nuthin.

Edited August 12, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1042048' date='Aug 12 2006, 04:19 AM']
Agreed, and correct. { you must be watching the TV show, or have read the books...}

The reason is that the very motivation for conversion was improperly explained.

Essentially, people are being sold the lifestyle BENEFITS of being a Christian, instead of the post lifetime promise of NO HELL. Therefore, when the benefits promised fail to materialize, health, wealth, respect, and happiness...they fall away.[/quote]So now, it's Ray Comfort's fault for selling a "health and wealth" gospel? I thought that he was "doing it right" by focusing on the threat of hell.

[Eutychus]

[quote]So now, it's Ray Comfort's fault for selling a "health and wealth" gospel? [/quote]

With that you have shown just how ignorant you are ....

Sorry, Comfort/Cameron are 'selling' the anti-properity gospel. I suggest you actually leave your little coccoon of self adulation, and go spend a 1/2 hour on the site and learn a few things before flapping your yapper fellah.

Now, AGAIN, here is the link, and if you are skilled enough, you might remember, that to GO THERE, all you need do is click on it.

Best, and come back and tell us all about the WEALTH message you see on that site...OR come back, and admit that you didn't know a darned thing and was just running off at your keyboard.

[url="http://www.livingwaters.com/columns_ray/"]YOU CLICK ON THIS FOR THE TERMINALLY CHALLENGED [/url]

[Mateo el Feo]

Eutychus, I'm afraid you must not have read my second sentence. If you need me to be clearer, just tell me.

[CoffeeCatholic]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1041611' date='Aug 11 2006, 03:24 PM']
he gave me that patented "deer in the headlights look" that I always get from Romanists when you try and tell them that Christianity is not a church, but a message and a relationship.

[/quote]

it's all about the Eucharist, hun. See, it IS about a church, but not the building. It's about what's in the little box in the back, what used to be bread wafers. It's about the fact that Catholics have the faith of a mustard seed when it comes to our Lord being able to present Himself in the accidental of bread and wine.

The ex-Catholics you have joining your church were never properly catachised. A sad thought. It's impossible to believe that a person who believes in God and believes in God's omnipotence, His inability to not be able to do something (mind trip!), would honestly understand the amazing doctrine of the Eucharist, know why we believe it, and have faith in it, simply to loose it and go to a protestant church, which is remarkably empty.

It wouldn't happen. I bet if you asked all of your 100 ex-catholic friends what they thought of the Eucharist, what it is, how it works, etc., almost all of them would tell you that they never believed in the true presence. If you found one person who could properly tell you what the Eucharist is, why the church believes in it, the Biblical support AND the traditional support, the miracles it has created, and THEN tell you why they left the church, i will eat my shoe.

oh, and just to let you know, there's now a major shift in the number of protestants, and people of other faiths for that matter, "switching teams" and joining the Roman Catholic church. The RC church has the second largest membership in America (only to the southern baptists), which means that if our membership is, lets say, 20 times that of yours, it would make sence for you to possibly have 20 ex-catholics for every 1 protestant convert of ours. However, the joy of it is that in recent years the numbers have NOT been even. Especially amoung the young adults, the college scene, Catholic Conversions have risen dramatically.

I know, i'm one of them

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='CoffeeCatholic' post='1043042' date='Aug 13 2006, 10:34 PM']The RC church has the second largest membership in America (only to the southern baptists)[/quote]Actually, the Catholic Church is the largest branch of Christianity in the United States. See Adherents.com ([url="http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#families"]link[/url]) for some statistics. What's interesting is that the Southern Baptist population seems to have flattened out over the last decade or so. I suspect that this is caused by defections to non-denominational churches.

[quote name='CoffeeCatholic' post='1043042' date='Aug 13 2006, 10:34 PM']I know, i'm one of them[/quote]

That's great!

[Eutychus]

[quote][u]The ex-Catholics you have joining your church were never properly catachised.[/u] A sad thought. It's impossible to believe that a person who believes in God and believes in God's omnipotence, His inability to not be able to do something (mind trip!), would honestly understand the amazing doctrine of the Eucharist, know why we believe it, and have faith in it, simply to loose it and go to a protestant church, which is remarkably empty. [/quote]

Ironically, I agree totally.

For, you see, Catholics use this one all the time. Even with those of us, who went to 12 years of Catholic school, even those who were priests and nuns, IMMEDIATELY upon their leaving the Catholic Church, are subjected to the "you were never PROPERLY Catechised" nonsense....

Now, why would I agree?

Do you know what Catechised means?

Those programmed to regurgitate upon command, by ROTE LEARNING, canned, prewritten answers to standard questions. And YES, everyone of my age { old } who attended Catholic schools were given something called the BALTIMORE CATECHISM, and in order to be confirmed, you had to regurgitate upon command, enough standard pablem to convince the testors that yes, you had been sufficiently brainwashed with the proffered pablum and could puke it out when prodded.

Essentially, being CATECHISED means being a PARROT.

So, I guess you are correct, we were not *[u][b][i]PROPERLY [/i][/b][/u]CATECHISED* although we all WERE catechised. Had we been *PROPERLY CATECHISED* we would never have learned to think, never learned to be like the Acts 17:11 converts so highly praised by Paul, and we would be still snoozing in the pews and praying to plaster and paint.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Eutychus

[Guest JeffCR07]

The issue should not be the number of people in the pews, but rather, the truth of the doctrine that is being taught. I will be more than happy to discuss, one on one, any point of Catholic doctrine that you desire, Eutychus. But my sense is that your posts are more intended for their polemic effect than for any truth in their content.

[thessalonian]

I guess he doesn't like the story of the prodigal son. I do not know of any Catholic who has come back to the church more than once, though I am sure there has been some. They are rare. I do know that the statistic according to ray comfort is that the average person making an altar call has done so six or 8 times.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1043971' date='Aug 15 2006, 07:08 AM']
Essentially, being CATECHISED means being a PARROT.[/quote]As opposed to your alternative where each believer makes up his own truth?

LOL. No thanks. I'd rather be a parrot for Christ than a free-thinker for satan.
[quote name='Eutychus' post='1043971' date='Aug 15 2006, 07:08 AM']...never learned to be like the Acts 17:11 converts so highly praised by Paul[/quote]Certainly, the Jews of Beroea were not exempt from the following:([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews13.htm#v17"]link[/url]):
[quote name='Hebrews 13:17']Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.[/quote]In contrast to today's American protestants, the Jews mentioned in Acts didn't found an endless number of competing churches with contradicting doctrines. Second, the Beroeans--like all the other Christian converts of the time--looked to a personal authority outside of themselves (i.e. St. Paul) as a representative of and a link to a universal Church. Each of the epistles in Holy Scriptures is a testament to the fact that a united Church had the authority to guide and correct local Christian comminuties.

Show me where the Holy Scriptures show the local churches could reject the authority of the Apostles (specifically, rejecting the teachings of the New Testament Epistles), and I'd join your heresy today. Side note: you still haven't revealed what particular flavor of Christianity you adhere to. Perhaps you're insecure about the defensibility of your beliefs, or realize that your church has watered down Christianity to the point that it only holds on to a "least common denominator" of belief, so you hide it and choose rather to attack someone else's believes rather than take a positive defense of your own.

In any event, if one could prove such a thing (i.e. selective acceptance of apostolic teachings), it would follow that the New Testament should be rejected, too. Maybe that's why protestant/evangelical/non-denominational/anarchic Christianity falls apart like a castle made out of cards.

[stbernardLT]

I'll bet if we preached such a simple, nonsuffering Gospel message we would have the same turn out. I mean besides it is always better to hear that after baptism you can do whatever you want and still inherit the kingdom. I mean that is what the beatitudes teach right, "Blessed are the baptized for they will not be held accountable." Man I like the sound of that. Or maybe it is the protestant message of the more we give the more we get, forget about being poor in spirit, I need to be rich in reimbursements. Anyway most protestant churches start out with the resurrection. Everything is peachy keen. The virgin birth isn't important, so what if Jesus said not to break His commandments (we are already baptized). The last supper gets about as high a ranking as the serpent in the desert (symbolism connects us to an untouchable God, real presence connects us to an approachable God who offers salvation through His body and blood). I wonder what importance the crucifixion holds (the single most important event in human history) in these churches. Afterall Jesus died so we could live, oops I mean he died so we could be baptized and live if we felt like it.
Oh well who cares, the only things that are important is: when will the world end, Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus, Romans 6, the rapture, tithing for returns, the waterdowned theology of the crucifixion, the resurrection, creationism, and any old testament prophesy that refers to war. I would love to attend a church like this. Too bad I can't avoid the truth.

This has been a condensed version of protestant seminary. Everyone on here can now be a pastor and PROSPER from the gospel.

Sorry I got to go pay respect to my Mother. Afterall it is the day she was taken up into heaven body and soul. I love being Catholic.

[stbernardLT]

I almost forgot to mention that truth is never decided by popularity, just read John 6.

[Eutychus]

[quote] In contrast to today's American protestants, [b][u]the Jews mentioned in Acts didn't found an endless number of competing churches with contradicting doctrines.[/u][/b][/quote]

Oh ye who knows little history...

I just LOVE it when a Roman Catholic TRIES to spout off history, as if they had a clue what went on.

RCIA needs revamped. All Catholic education seems to be so materially deficient in history, given that the ERASER is the main tool of Catholic theolgogians, I guess that stands to reason....

[quote][b]The following are the main divisions [u]which existed in Scripture times[/u][/b]:

I. - THE KENITES.
II. - THE RECHABITES.
III. - THE SAMARITANS.
IV. - NAZIRITES.
THE CHASIDIM.
V. - THE PHARISEES.
VI. - THE SADDUCEES.
VII. - THE ESSENES.
VIII. - THE SCRIBES.
IX. - THE LAWYERS.
X. - THE HERODIANS.
XI. - THE ZEALOTS.
XII. - THE GALILEANS.
XIII. - SICARII.

OTHER CLASSES OF JEWS.
XVI. - THE SANHEDRIN.
XV. - PROSELYTES.
XVI. - PUBLICANS.
XVII. - HELLENISTS.
[/quote]



[quote] I'll bet if we preached such a simple, nonsuffering Gospel message we would have the same turn out. I mean besides it is always better to hear that after baptism you can do whatever you want and still inherit the kingdom.[/quote]

OR....

You can depend on the magic talisman and GET A FREE PASS??

Hey, why repent and change, just invest in a little woolen patch and yadda big, yadda bang, in you go into heaven!

[img]http://www.sacramentals.com/Images/Scapular.Traditional.gif[/img]

Edited August 15, 2006 by Eutychus

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044252' date='Aug 15 2006, 05:48 PM']
RCIA needs revamped.
[/quote]

I agree most RCIA needs revamping... Not enough emphasis on conversion to Christ and too much
head knowledge.......


[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044252' date='Aug 15 2006, 05:48 PM']
Hey, why repent and change, ......
[/quote]

Repenting and having a change of heart to Christ is critical.... Over and over this is mentioned in the gospels.
New life comes from turning to Christ.

I am sorry for the lack of Christ-like love by some on this thread..... But, looking at your posts, I can tell you have
bitterness. I'd like to direct you to the following website:
[url="http://www.evangelicalcatholic.org/"]http://www.evangelicalcatholic.org/[/url]

and the writings of Cardinal Dulles for an understanding that
one can be a good Evangelical Christian and a Catholic.... And the reason to be both would be a love for Christ and
the Scripture..... (I Corinthians 1:11-13 [NIV] 11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a]"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul?



Anyways, peace brother!

[jswranch]

All,
I wanted to give a summary of the people in this upcoming RCIA season. As a graduate of our parish program from last year, I was proud to see:

3 unchurched
1 Anglican
2 Protestants (non-specified)
1 Wesleyan
1 lukewarm Catholic who "remembers nothing from CCD"
1 fallen away Catholic returing from Modernism and desires re-training
1 Protestant married to a choir member, who has attended mass for fourty years and never took the time