Out & In ~ RCIA ~ Revolving Doors ~ Evangelism

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044252' date='Aug 15 2006, 06:48 PM']Oh ye who knows little history...

I just LOVE it when a Roman Catholic TRIES to spout off history, as if they had a clue what went on.[/quote]Following your example, should my response be, "Oh ye who has minimal reading comprehension"? Do you see how condescending your post sounds?

I was specifically referring to the Jewish converts of Beroea (i.e. the "converts so highly praised by Paul") that we were discussing, mentioned in Acts 17:11 . Those converts did not establish separate churches. I was explicit about this, and was not speaking in generalizations about 1st century Judaism.

I am quite aware that Judaism was split into a variety of sects; but, these sects were not caused by Christianity, and they did not result in autocephalous sects within Christianity.

Before you jump the gun and go off on a tangent to criticizing RCIA, please try to resolve any confusion you might have with my post. As a side note, I don't think it's appropriate for you to criticize the RCIA program, since I'm not a convert.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[HollyDolly]

Eutychus,i don't see anything wrong with having dinner or being friends with an RCIA instructor.
Maybe your friend will look at the information you gave him and can borrow some ideas from it to use in his classes.
NEVER have I ever had a fellow Catholic invite me to go to church with them.Bu i have had protestants do so.
I think the Catholic Church needs to borrow a few ideas from the other side and go and reach out to people.There are some orders of nuns like the Sisters,Home Visitors of Mary,and the Parish Visitors of Mary Immaculate who do go door to door to people.But there aren't too many like that.Besides,trying to spread the Faith,they may also provide information about social and charitable services in the area,which could help a battered woman and her family,or the elderly,etc.
We really have to reach out more to our fellow Christians and spread the Gospel of Jesus to them and about our faith.
Faint heart never won fair maiden as they say.

Most people are not into big philisophical discussons about doctrine and canon law.They need to know about Jesus,what the Eucharist means,why you should go to confession,and kept holy days of obligation and a few simple things.The rest can be left to the theologians. St.Bernardine of Sienna,St.Vincent Ferrer and other famous preachers of the church,told the story of Jesus
in terms laymen and women could relate to,not high falutan fancy talk that only the pope could grasp.

At least you are trying to help your friend which i think is nice.

[Eutychus]

[u][b]Catholic Evangelism is an Oxymoronism.[/b][/u]

Honestly.

EVERY SINGLE evangelical is TRAINED to spread the world of Christ, all of us, every single one.

And we do it too. I only have to ask the readers here, all Catholics, HOW MANY evangelicals have tried to talk to you about salvation and Jesus in your life? If you are like most, you are sick of them doing so, right?

Now we turn the tables. How many Evangelicals have ever had a Roman Catholic come up to them, and do the same thing?

The numbers approach ZERO, if you want to be honest. And WHY is that? The truth is ... most Roman Catholics know literally nothing about their church, God, Jesus, or the bible. They are too embarrassed and in their shame they more or less hide and cower, fear and ignorance being the main features of the Roman Catholic pew pupplies.

Think I'm exaggerating here? Read some of the polls that test Christians on anything....the Roman Catholics are on the bottom of EVERY measurable element of faith, practice, giving, and knowledge...dead last.

The recent Barna report on evangelical beliefs in mainline churches is almost too excruciating to read. . . and Roman Catholics are holding up the bottom of the curve:


[quote]Catholics had the lowest percentage (23 percent) who believed the Bible to be accurate. . .

[u][b]ONLY - 17 percent of Catholics believed Satan was real;[/b] [/u]

ONLY - 33 percent of Catholics believed Jesus was sinless;

AND - 91 percent of Catholics believed works earn salvation . . . . [/quote]


Caught in our Shame: Comments on the Recent Barna Report

[url="http://www.ccwonline.org/pbarna.html"]CLICK HERE[/url]

Edited August 17, 2006 by Eutychus

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044900' date='Aug 16 2006, 06:01 PM']
[u][b]Catholic Evangelism is an Oxymoronism.[/b][/u]

Honestly.

EVERY SINGLE evangelical is TRAINED to spread the world of Christ, all of us, every single one.

And we do it too. I only have to ask the readers here, all Catholics, HOW MANY evangelicals have tried to talk to you about salvation and Jesus in your life? If you are like most, you are sick of them doing so, right?

Now we turn the tables. How many Evangelicals have ever had a Roman Catholic come up to them, and do the same thing?

The numbers approach ZERO, if you want to be honest. And WHY is that? The truth is ... most Roman Catholics know literally nothing about their church, God, Jesus, or the bible. They are too embarrassed and in their shame they more or less hide and cower, fear and ignorance being the main features of the Roman Catholic pew pupplies.

Think I'm exaggerating here? Read some of the polls that test Christians on anything....the Roman Catholics are on the bottom of EVERY measurable element of faith, practice, giving, and knowledge...dead last.

The recent Barna report on evangelical beliefs in mainline churches is almost too excruciating to read. . . and Roman Catholics are holding up the bottom of the curve:
Caught in our Shame: Comments on the Recent Barna Report

[url="http://www.ccwonline.org/pbarna.html"]CLICK HERE[/url]
[/quote]
Yes, shame on all those who call themselves "Catholic," let blatantly reject or ignore what the Catholic Church teaches.

Unfortunately there are many who use "Catholic" as nothing more than a kind of ethnic designation (like "Jewish"), but who neither practice nor care about their Faith.

And I personally know many Catholics who are very active in evangelization, even those who volunteer several years of their lives to evanglize on college campuses.

Those people who neither believe, follow, nor spread the Catholic Faith do not deserve the label "Catholic."

Edited August 17, 2006 by Socrates

[Eutychus]

Oh. lest you accuse me of { as is normally the case } being mean, nasty, yada yada...

I will let a most insightful article published in OUR SUNDAY VISITOR by Ralph Martin, say the same but done by a Roman Catholic trying to explain WHAT is the problem....here....now....and always.

[color="#663333"][quote]]Catholic leaders often "blame" Protestants for proselytizing Catholics and commend us for the "richness" of our faith. However, we need to face the embarrassing question of why so many millions of Catholics around the world are finding a reality of Christian life in Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that they did not find in their local Catholic church.[/u]

The wrong kind of Catholic pride twists confidence in the truth and the treasures of Catholicism into complacency. It blinds us to the impoverished state of many Catholic institutions and many Catholics' lives.

[b]I know of many Catholics who have fallen away from their faith-or who were living in parishes where the gospel was not being preached and morality was not being taught and no support was being given for family life-and who found a living, personal relationship with Jesus Christ in a Baptist or Assembly of God congregation.

[u]Rather than condemning the Protestants for proselytism, we Catholics should consider the possibility that people might find more practical help in the Protestant churches for avoiding hell and attaining heaven than they were getting in their Catholic parishes. [/u][/b][/quote][/color]

AMEN to that one.

By the way, my church is now 60% ex Roman Catholic. My last one was over 1/2 ex Catholic Church. AND THAT was EXACTLY what I heard over and over from those when the topic of why we all changed came up.

[Franimus]

Inviting others to go to Mass with me isn't something I've done often, but I do it now. I've invited a fellow Catholic to go to Mass with me cause we couldn't figgure out what else to do on the last Holy Day of Obligation, and I've invited a good friend of mine to go with me sometime should she wish to learn more, and also invited a number of people while at FUS, but that's a given there, and is akin to inviting someone to hang out anywhere else.

[Eutychus]

Hon....inviting people to mass is NOT evangelism.

[stbernardLT]

Dude your whole church is ex-Roman Catholic, because we are the true church. Without us there would be no you. Again truth is not determined by popularity.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1044900' date='Aug 16 2006, 08:01 PM']
[u][b]Catholic Evangelism is an Oxymoronism.[/b][/u]

Honestly.

EVERY SINGLE evangelical is TRAINED to spread the world of Christ, all of us, every single one.[/quote]
EVERY SINGLE Catholic is TRAINED to be live according to the Gospel, all of us, every single one. Of course, just as I've personally met plenty of fallen-away evangelicals who find more consolation in alcohol and sex that in the Bible, there are plenty of fallen away Catholics who do the same thing.

You might find it difficult to believe that not every Catholic is a model of Christian virtue, but we're all human beings. You can focus on our failings if that's what turns you on, but I find it hard to hear a voice of charity in all of your comments. All I hear is pride and sick pleasure in the failings of others. I find it hard to imagine Our Lord being pleased with your method of communicating your words of wisdom to us poor Catholics.

PS--Oxymoronism isn't a word, and Catholic Evangelism is not an oxymoron.

[Eutychus]

[quote] Dude your whole church is ex-Roman Catholic, because we are the true church. Without us there would be no you. Again truth is not determined by popularity.[/quote]

I have a personal little joke that I love to chuckle at...

Any church that CLAIMS to be be the OTC, isn't.

{ Mormons, JWs, SDA, etc all make that claim too you know. }

And AGAIN, for the thousandth time, EKKLESIA/CHURCH, never meant denomination, but is applicable to EVERY born again, washed in the blood, bible following, bible believing, Jesus conforming, repentent believer.

The TRUTH is, witouth Messianic JEWS, there would NO ANY OF US.

[quote] met plenty of fallen-away evangelicals who find more consolation in alcohol and sex that in the Bible,[/quote]

?

Fundies normally don't drink at all. Or gamble. Or smoke. Or run around. { of course, we have our share of those who sin no monopoly on THAT can be claimed by any of us, or others, for that matter }

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045247' date='Aug 17 2006, 05:17 AM']Fundies normally don't drink at all. Or gamble. Or smoke. Or run around. { of course, we have our share of those who sin no monopoly on THAT can be claimed by any of us, or others, for that matter }
[/quote]Are you now saying that I don't know these people? Are you claiming that some religion's adherents has a monopoly on sin? That's both weird and un-Biblical.

[url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john1.htm#v6"]1 John 1:6-10 (link)[/url]
[quote name='1 John 1:6-10']If we say, "We have fellowship with him," while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie and do not act in truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin. If we say, "We are without sin," we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. If we say, "We have not sinned," we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. [/quote]You keep on proclaiming your sinlessness, and we Catholics will keep acknowledging our sins.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045247' date='Aug 17 2006, 05:17 AM']The TRUTH is, witouth Messianic JEWS, there would NO ANY OF US.[/quote]The term [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews"]Messianic Judaism (link)[/url] refers to a modern religious movement which looks more like the Judaisers of old. The Catholic Church depends on Judaism no more than Our Lord Himself does. But, at least you seem to be conceding that non-Catholic Christianity was a novelty that can't trace itself through 2000 years of history to the foundation of Christianity.

[Eutychus]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1045316' date='Aug 17 2006, 07:08 AM']
Are you now saying that I don't know these people? Are you claiming that some religion's adherents has a monopoly on sin? That's both weird and un-Biblical.

[url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john1.htm#v6"]1 John 1:6-10 (link)[/url]
[u][b]You keep on proclaiming your sinlessness, [/b]and we Catholics will keep acknowledging our sins.[/u]
[/quote]

Again my man, you cannot READ.

[quote]. { [size=4]of course, [u]we have our share of those who sin[/u] no monopoly on THAT[/size] can be claimed by any of us, or others, for that matter }[/quote]

Why does simple English make you guys struggle so hard to grasp? Over and over we see this pattern. Apparently Catholic education isn't what it once was....

Edited August 17, 2006 by Eutychus

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045357' date='Aug 17 2006, 11:29 AM']
Again my man, you cannot READ.
Why does simple English make you guys struggle so hard to grasp? Over and over we see this pattern. Apparently Catholic education isn't what it once was.... [/quote]I find it ironic that you think yourself in a position to criticize the reading comprehension of others. I especially like your use of the [i]royal we[/i]. It's so quaint.

Anyway, I can read between the lines. You would like to paint a picture of Catholicism as a den of iniquity and your sect of evangelical Christianity as a bastion of virtue. I'm just saying that you might want to take off your rose-colored glasses.

Our Lord looks at those who obsess on pointing out the sins of others as being hypocrites ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew7.htm#v1"]link[/url]):
[quote name='Matthew 7:1-5']"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye. [/quote]
Regarding my Catholic education, you'll be happy to learn that I was educated in the public school system. You may want to refrain from making so many assumptions about those with whom you speak.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Anyway, I can read between the lines. You would like to paint a picture of Catholicism as a den of iniquity [u]and your sect of evangelical Christianity as a bastion of virtue.[/u] [/quote]

And pray tell, just what IS THAT "SECT" that I have been promoting?

{ In vain you will try, but I have never mentioned it, not once. So much for PROMOTION, huh? }

[i]{{{ reading comprehension problems again old ... MdeF? }}}[/i]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045418' date='Aug 17 2006, 01:08 PM']
And pray tell, just what IS THAT "SECT" that I have been promoting?

{ In vain you will try, but I have never mentioned it, not once. So much for PROMOTION, huh? }

[i]{{{ reading comprehension problems again old ... MdeF? }}}[/i]
[/quote]You are correct, you are quite stealthy about the particular beliefs of your local church pastor.

The advantage of playing this game is that you can claim high numbers of co-religionists when you want to take advantage of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect"]bandwagon effect (link)[/url]. Then, when there is an attack against evangelicalism (e.g. the health-and-wealth evangelicals), you easily write them off as not being "true" evangelicals.

The strategy is quite effective, though I do question the honesty of those who would make use of such deceptive techniques.

PS--What's MdeF? Did you mean MelF? If you'd like something short, just call me Mateo.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[Eutychus]

[quote]You are correct, you are quite stealthy about the particular beliefs of your local church pastor. [/quote]

YOu know, in all honesty, I really do NOT know of them, I have never asked, I have what I surmise is a rough idea, but he has never divulged them all, nor does it matter much even if he did.

You see, in REAL Christianity, the pastor is merely a figurehead, the guy that runs things and does the sermons. They are not our faith, they do not DETERMINE our faith, they are not even that important TO our faith.

Most of us, can move from this church to that, find 90% of the core doctrines very much the same, and settle in and worship, and continue following our REAL faith, which has nothing to do with the sign over the front door. I know that floors Roman Catholics who simply cannot fathom that approach. But when the head of your church is Jesus, the statement of faith is the entire bible, you would be amazed at how liberating that really is.

[Franimus]

Our priests do not DETERMINE our faith. They teach it to us. Our faith is determined by the Truth, Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who guides the Church and the priests therein to teach us the Truth. Priests, as homilists, are not important to my faith, but help with it. Apparently, you seem to know more about faith than a collective of generations of theologans. And please, don't call me hon. Quite frankly, it worries me a little that a straight guy (I'm presuming, especially by your manner of arrogance) would call me hon, even patronizingly. Really, if you want to have any sort of decent impression on us and possibly get us all saved, you'd treat us with respect. I'm not saying all of us have given you utmost respect, but it still seems to be a lot more respect than you give. Inviting people to Mass is a form of evangelizing, especially since when I invite people we are in the middle of discussing Christ. I will pray for you to see the true Truth, whether it be the Church or not, and ask you to do the same for me, too. In the meantime, I will keep believing that the Church does contain the Truth, because, well, it has the Eucharist, which is Jesus, and you can google Eucharistic miracles to get some supernatural proof besides the scriptures for that.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045247' date='Aug 17 2006, 03:17 AM']
Fundies normally don't drink at all. Or gamble. Or smoke. Or run around. { [b]of course, we have our share of those who sin no monopoly on THAT can be claimed by any of us, or others, for that matter[/b] }
[/quote]
Gotta love the double standard here.
If a [i]Catholic[/i] sins, that proves how the Catholic Church is false and evil, but if a a Fundy sins, "hey, nobody's got a monopoly on sin"

[Eutychus]

Ah.....we are NOT talking about INDIVIDUAL Catholics here, now are we? But priests.

And the last time I checked, NONE OF US is making the claim that WE have the fullness of truth, keys to the kingdom, yada yada, pride and pomp stuff, now are we?

To those that make those HIGH FALUTING CLAIMS, accrues a higher standard ... doesn't it?

Smooch and XXX'es



[quote name='Franimus' post='1045708' date='Aug 17 2006, 05:03 PM']
Our priests do not DETERMINE our faith. They teach it to us. Our faith is determined by the Truth, Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who guides the Church and the priests therein to teach us the Truth.
[/quote]

BUMPER STICKER slogans. Totally divorced from reality.