chris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote]The "professionals" arent getting it right.[/quote] I dont believe your fully qualified or even partially qualified to make that judgment. 1 Timothy 3:15: If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. We have reason why our churches are so important. If they arent important to you thats not our problems. Christ grants us the salvation through the church because it is the pillar and foundation of truth. Thus, it is important. If the church didnt do anything like Budge and his other buddy thinks then there would have been no real reason for Christ to even establish a church. we are granted salvation by Christ, through the church. Yet, the church doesnt take the focus off Christ because she was created by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote]The "professionals" arent getting it right.[/quote] I dont believe your fully qualified or even partially qualified to make that judgment. 1 Timothy 3:15: If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. We have reason why our churches are so important. If they arent important to you thats not our problems. Christ grants us the salvation through the church because it is the pillar and foundation of truth. Thus, it is important. If the church didnt do anything like Budge and his other buddy thinks then there would have been no real reason for Christ to even establish a church. we are granted salvation by Christ, through the church. Yet, the church doesnt take the focus off Christ because she was created by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 [quote]The "professionals" arent getting it right.[/quote] I dont believe your fully qualified or even partially qualified to make that judgment. 1 Timothy 3:15: If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. We have reason why our churches are so important. If they arent important to you thats not our problems. Christ grants us the salvation through the church because it is the pillar and foundation of truth. Thus, it is important. If the church didnt do anything like Budge and his other buddy thinks then there would have been no real reason for Christ to even establish a church. we are granted salvation by Christ, through the church. Yet, the church doesnt take the focus off Christ because she was created by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1046251' date='Aug 18 2006, 04:01 PM'] The "professionals" arent getting it right. The interreligious dialogue and fact they teach Allah [of Islam] is the same as Jehovah, tells me they are failing miserably in any interpretation of scripture. They follow their own traditions rather then Gods Word. Some questions for you... Why does the Catholic church want you to believe that the Pope and other Catholic leaders are the only ones capable of interpreting scripture and infallible in mattersof doctrine? isnt it to bring members into further bondage and obedience to the Catholic church? [size=5] Where do fallible men obtain the authority to declare other men infallible?[/size] scripture over and over claims that only God is infallible. [/quote] I was going to respond to this, but Convert4888 gave a good response. Also, if you read Acts 15, you will see that when there were disagreements over doctrine/practices, the early church didn't go off and do "personal interpretation"; they convened a council of Church leaders to hash it out. And the fallible men obtained their authority from Christ when He gave Peter teh keys to th ekingdom with authority to bind and loose. And at the last supper, Jesus promised the apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide them to all truth. Edited August 18, 2006 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [quote]I was going to respond to this, but Convert4888 gave a good response. [/quote] Thanks To all those enjoying this debate, sorry for the triple post my browser is being weird. Plus, where is your proof of Allah being the God of the Catholic Church. We worship Jesus, Not Allah, he is not my God. Get with the picture. The Koran lies about the Crucifixtion and says that it never happened and Jesus was only a prophet. This is wrong. Plus, Islam cannot be a reflection of Christianity to me because, they are way to into getting revenge in the name of Allah. In Christianity, Revenge belongs to GOD. Not his people. So, how do you figure? Edited August 18, 2006 by Convert4888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Punk Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge']“Why does the Catholic church want you to believe that the Pope and other Catholic leaders are the only ones capable of interpreting scripture and infallible in mattersof doctrine? isnt it to bring members into further bondage and obedience to the Catholic church?”[/quote] You have a very obscure and narrow-minded point of view. I thought that the topic was supposed to be kept as an intellectual debate to seriously consider the questions ask, and “not point fingers at one another”. Please if you can not be civil find another thread to post on. Now to answer your question… The Catholic Church teaches that the interpretation scripture belongs to the Church, because it has the originals, we have the Sacred tradition passed down from Jesus. Please provide just one organization that has this factual history documented going directly back to the roots of Christ. I think your beef is not with the Church but what you perceive to be the Catholic Church. The Pope himself is not infallible, priest and bishops are not infallible. However the acts of the Holy Spirit are infallible. You claim to believe the Bible as the Word of God and it is infallible. How then do you determine what is infallible because the Bible says so. I would challenge you to give me a verse of the Bible that defines that the book you are reading is the single pillar of faith. Any book that states that it in itself is the sole pillar by which you must beleive is not worthy of belief. The Bible was published in 393 AD. That is nearly 400 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. How can anyone get it right, if it was not for the Holy Spirit leading the Catholic Counsil which determined all books of the new testement that are infallible and that which was not. [quote name='Budge'] No, "Saved" means that you are a baptised person (or catechuman waiting to be baptised) who confesses all the Dogmata of the Catholic Church, acts in obedience to the Magesterium, and is in a state of grace (i. e. a state of not being in mortal sin). The Bible doesnt say that at all.”[/quote] Actually it does Mark 16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned". So what do you believeth? Some one single point in the bible coupled with a couple more verses? Or do you believeth what was passed down from generation to generation through the apostolic sucession the only Church that encompasses all of the scripture not just parts of it. We are all the body of Christ... "I am the vine you are the branches"... It just depends what type of branch you are. The Catholic Church has always taught that each and every human being is formed in the image of God. To segragate our brothers and sisters is to deny God. Peace. Edited August 18, 2006 by Church Punk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote]Plus, where is your proof of Allah being the God of the Catholic Church. We worship Jesus, Not Allah, he is not my God.[/quote] The Catholic Church has marked itself as antichrist by saying Allah [of Islam] is God too. [quote] 3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. [b]They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees[/b], just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1046542' date='Aug 20 2006, 07:00 AM'] The Catholic Church has marked itself as antichrist by saying Allah [of Islam] is God too. [/quote] There is only one God, and the muslims think they are worshipping Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too. Back to thread... [img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1046571' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:17 AM'] Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too. Back to thread... [img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img] [/quote] Well there is only ONE God, if I called him George, HE would still be the one God. Your cute little picture forget something called baptism [ unless you are born of the water and the spirit , remember that part], any reference to authority[church being the pillar and foundation of truth] etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote]Well there is only ONE God, if I called him George, HE would still be the one God.[/quote] You have got to be kidding me. Do you realize what you have just said? That you would worship a false god in a heart beat, a god of your own making and one of "many names"....which is not the one true God of the Bible but Satan. This book is WRONG. [img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/066424419X.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img] Universalists one and all. And some here cant GET why I left Catholicism AFTER realizing UNIVERSALISM was bunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1046578' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:50 AM'] You have got to be kidding me. Do you realize what you have just said? That you would worship a false god in a heart beat, a god of your own making and one of "many names"....which is not the one true God of the Bible but Satan. This book is WRONG. Universalists one and all. And some here cant GET why I left Catholicism AFTER realizing UNIVERSALISM was bunk. [/quote] No I said there is ONLY ONE God, and if you happen to get HIS name wrong, your prayers still go to HIM, cause they ain't no one else out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutychus Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote]No I said there is ONLY ONE God, and if you happen to get HIS name wrong, your prayers still go to HIM, cause they ain't no one else out there [/quote] Uhhhh.....I guess you missed Paul's little lesson in Athens, huh? [quote]Ac 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange [size=5]god[u]s[/u][/size]: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection[/quote] And this one... [quote]1Co 8:5 For though there be that are [size=5]called gods,[/size] whether in heaven or in earth, ([size=5]as there be gods many,[/size] and lords many,)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote name='Eutychus' post='1046588' date='Aug 20 2006, 09:03 AM'] Uhhhh.....I guess you missed Paul's little lesson in Athens, huh? And this one... [/quote] I said GOD, not gods. THere is ONLY one, the rest are mere fantasies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1046571' date='Aug 20 2006, 06:17 AM'] Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too. Back to thread... [img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img] [/quote] So you're saying that Repentence of sins is not necesary for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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