Catholics and Salvation

[Church Punk]

[quote name='Budge']“Why does the Catholic church want you to believe that the Pope and other Catholic leaders are the only ones capable of interpreting scripture and infallible in mattersof doctrine? isnt it to bring members into further bondage and obedience to the Catholic church?”[/quote]

You have a very obscure and narrow-minded point of view.

I thought that the topic was supposed to be kept as an intellectual debate to seriously consider the questions ask, and “not point fingers at one another”. Please if you can not be civil find another thread to post on.

Now to answer your question…

The Catholic Church teaches that the interpretation scripture belongs to the Church, because it has the originals, we have the Sacred tradition passed down from Jesus. Please provide just one organization that has this factual history documented going directly back to the roots of Christ.

I think your beef is not with the Church but what you perceive to be the Catholic Church.

The Pope himself is not infallible, priest and bishops are not infallible. However the acts of the Holy Spirit are infallible. You claim to believe the Bible as the Word of God and it is infallible. How then do you determine what is infallible because the Bible says so. I would challenge you to give me a verse of the Bible that defines that the book you are reading is the single pillar of faith. Any book that states that it in itself is the sole pillar by which you must beleive is not worthy of belief.

The Bible was published in 393 AD. That is nearly 400 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. How can anyone get it right, if it was not for the Holy Spirit leading the Catholic Counsil which determined all books of the new testement that are infallible and that which was not.

[quote name='Budge']
No, "Saved" means that you are a baptised person (or catechuman waiting to be baptised) who confesses all the Dogmata of the Catholic Church, acts in obedience to the Magesterium, and is in a state of grace (i. e. a state of not being in mortal sin).


The Bible doesnt say that at all.”[/quote]

Actually it does

Mark 16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned".
So what do you believeth? Some one single point in the bible coupled with a couple more verses? Or do you believeth what was passed down from generation to generation through the apostolic sucession the only Church that encompasses all of the scripture not just parts of it.

We are all the body of Christ... "I am the vine you are the branches"... It just depends what type of branch you are. The Catholic Church has always taught that each and every human being is formed in the image of God. To segragate our brothers and sisters is to deny God.


Peace.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Church Punk

[Budge]

[quote]Plus, where is your proof of Allah being the God of the Catholic Church. We worship Jesus, Not Allah, he is not my God.[/quote]

The Catholic Church has marked itself as antichrist by saying Allah [of Islam] is God too.
[quote]
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. [b]They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees[/b], just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046542' date='Aug 20 2006, 07:00 AM']
The Catholic Church has marked itself as antichrist by saying Allah [of Islam] is God too.
[/quote]
There is only one God, and the muslims think they are worshipping Him.

[Budge]

Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too.

Back to thread...

[img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046571' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:17 AM']
Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too.

Back to thread...

[img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Well there is only ONE God, if I called him George, HE would still be the one God.

Your cute little picture forget something called baptism [ unless you are born of the water and the spirit , remember that part], any reference to authority[church being the pillar and foundation of truth] etc

[Budge]

[quote]Well there is only ONE God, if I called him George, HE would still be the one God.[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me.

Do you realize what you have just said?

That you would worship a false god in a heart beat, a god of your own making and one of "many names"....which is not the one true God of the Bible but Satan.

This book is WRONG.

[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/066424419X.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img]

Universalists one and all.

And some here cant GET why I left Catholicism AFTER realizing UNIVERSALISM was bunk.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046578' date='Aug 20 2006, 08:50 AM']
You have got to be kidding me.

Do you realize what you have just said?

That you would worship a false god in a heart beat, a god of your own making and one of "many names"....which is not the one true God of the Bible but Satan.

This book is WRONG.


Universalists one and all.

And some here cant GET why I left Catholicism AFTER realizing UNIVERSALISM was bunk.
[/quote]

No I said there is ONLY ONE God, and if you happen to get HIS name wrong, your prayers still go to HIM, cause they ain't no one else out there

[Eutychus]

[quote]No I said there is ONLY ONE God, and if you happen to get HIS name wrong, your prayers still go to HIM, cause they ain't no one else out there [/quote]

Uhhhh.....I guess you missed Paul's little lesson in Athens, huh?

[quote]Ac 17:18

Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange [size=5]god[u]s[/u][/size]: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection[/quote]

And this one...

[quote]1Co 8:5

For though there be that are [size=5]called gods,[/size] whether in heaven or in earth, ([size=5]as there be gods many,[/size] and lords many,)[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1046588' date='Aug 20 2006, 09:03 AM']
Uhhhh.....I guess you missed Paul's little lesson in Athens, huh?
And this one...
[/quote]

I said GOD, not gods.
THere is ONLY one, the rest are mere fantasies

[XIX]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046571' date='Aug 20 2006, 06:17 AM']
Your church in Nostra Atate refers to Allah [of Islam] as God too.

Back to thread...

[img]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/salvationtract.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
So you're saying that Repentence of sins is not necesary for salvation.

[Eutychus]

[quote] THere is ONLY one, the rest are mere fantasies[/quote]

Hon, you are missing the point here { is that deliberate? } there are MANY gods just look around you.

What you are missing here, is that they are not THE God, but they ARE INDEED, gods.

[Budge]

[quote]I said GOD, not gods.
THere is ONLY one, the rest are mere fantasies
[/quote]

Honestly Im creeped out by the Any {One} God will do mentality on this board.

But then I suppose that is the natural outcome of any non-Christian religion which Catholicism definitely is.

Edited August 20, 2006 by Budge

[jswranch]

[quote name='Budge' post='1046542' date='Aug 20 2006, 05:00 AM']
The Catholic Church has marked itself as antichrist by saying Allah [of Islam] is God too.
[/quote]
I see this as saying they worship the God of Abraham just as Christians do.

[Budge]

Anyone who cannot figure out the first commandment is NOT a Christian.

That includes on the list, those who think Allah [of Islam] is God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1046598' date='Aug 20 2006, 09:11 AM']
Hon, you are missing the point here { is that deliberate? } there are MANY gods just look around you.

What you are missing here, is that they are not THE God, but they ARE INDEED, gods.
[/quote]

No sweetems, you are missing my point. There is only one God, and prayers have no where else to go but to HIM. So if someone believes in Almighty Omnipotent Eternal God , Creator of the Universe but calls him El, or Jehovah, or even Tash, instead of God, he is still God.

I see many thing people can love more than God Almighty, but they are certainly NOT God or gods.

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1046605' date='Aug 20 2006, 10:17 AM']No sweetems[/quote]

[Budge]

[quote]omeone believes in Almighty Omnipotent Eternal God , Creator of the Universe but calls him El, or Jehovah, or even Tash, instead of God, he is still God.[/quote]

So according to you if someone is praying to Zoraster, or the "Goddess", or Allah, they are all praying to the one true God of the Bible.

Dear, you are horribly mistaken.

Many people who do not know God, pray to false spirits believing they are GOD.

[Eutychus]

[quote]There is only one God, and prayers have no where else to go but to HIM. So if someone believes in Almighty Omnipotent Eternal God , Creator of the Universe but calls him El, or Jehovah, or even Tash, instead of God, he is still God.[/quote]

Tell me you are kidding?!

Honestly.

So, I pray to Shiva, and the prayer goes to YHWH? I pray to Ba'al, and the prayer is rerouted to YHWH?

Have you even READ the Old Testament? Honestly, NO ONE can truly be that wrong and make even a claim to have any knowledge of the bible. Sorry.

I sit her staggered that anyone would make that claim with a straight face.

We might as well toss out the first commandment then, hey, if ALL PRAYERS go to YHWH no matter WHOM we are praying to...then Asheroth, Ba'al, Thor, Zeus, Diana, Artemis, and Mars....were just fine, and Pau should have just come into those towns and saw that they were OK BY YOUR definition, and moved on, after making a donation at the local temple to whomever...

{ unbelievable, simply unbelievable...}

[Justified Saint]

But in Islam the foundational pillar is "There is no god but God". Muhammad himself rejected the moon god theory.

It's just common sense, but fundamentalists are rarely strong in that. Saying that the Islamic religion recognizes one Lord and Creator is a far cry from saying that therefore all Muslims are saved. But in the twisted fundi mind, everything is distorted to be used as ammo to advance an agenda of hate.

Edited August 20, 2006 by Justified Saint

[Budge]

You know what is funny, is that all of you so called "conservatives" have adopted the language of PC Liberals.

Theyve done that indoctrination quite well.

The Militant homosexuals used to be the only ones who screamed HATER, BIGOT! everytime someone disagreed with them.

Everyone is FULL of HATE that doesnt get on your universalistic, hippie kumbuyah, all religions lead to god, bus supposely.


Muslims do not worship Jehovah. They worship a false god. Go read the Koran and try and tell me again that their god is is the One true God.

The Koran by the way denies Jesus Christ directly in Surah 4, by saying that the god you worship is the same god as Islam, you have marked yourself as antichrist.