What I Learned In My Years In Catholic School

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060883' date='Sep 11 2006, 05:41 PM']
I do not believe the Pope is a successor to Peter, who was a true apostle.

Peter taught many things opposite to what the Papacy practices.
[size=4]
Act 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him].

Act 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.[/size]

[img]http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/03/25/pope-in.jpg[/img][/quote]

Catholics don't worship the pope, nor would any pope tolerate being worshiped!

[quote][size=4]
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.[/size]

Theres many more things like this.
[img]http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/Napoleons-papal-tiara.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

So there was no papal tiara in the days of St. Peter. So what? The pope doesn't live in the lap of luxury. His personal apartment isn't exactly a penthouse!

[Budge]

[quote]
So there was no papal tiara in the days of St. Peter. So what? The pope doesn't live in the lap of luxury. His personal apartment isn't exactly a penthouse![/quote]

Actually IT IS LIKE PENTHOUSE.
[quote]
No place like home: Papal apartment gets extreme makeover

By John Thavis
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- When he was elected last April, Pope Benedict XVI inherited the papal apartment on the top floor of the Apostolic Palace, but it wasn't until Christmas that the pope could really call it home.

The apartment, [size=4]about 10 rooms in all[/size], underwent a three-month renovation this fall. Electrical wiring was replaced, new pipes were installed, the kitchen was refurbished and a[size=4] custom-fitted private library was put in place.[/size]

It was "Extreme Makeover: Vatican Edition." And while the pope didn't whoop or jump up and down at the unveiling, he made it clear he was pleased with the results.

[size=4]"I can only admire the things you've done, like these beautiful floors,"[/size] he told [u]the [b]more than 200 architects, engineers and workers[/b] involved in the remodeling project.[/u]



"I really like my new library,[size=4] with that antique ceiling[/size]. For me it's like being surrounded by friends, now that there are books on the shelf," he said.

[size=4]The floors were the original 16th-century marble slabs and inlay, restored to their original luster[/size]. The library solved the problem of where to put the pope's 20,000 books, which he did not want to leave in storage somewhere.

Details of the remodeling were considered secret, but they emerged in the sideways fashion typical of the Vatican. When Bruno Bartoloni, a veteran Vatican correspondent for the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, went to have his hair cut recently, he found himself seated next to a talkative member of the restoration team.

The renovation, the workman related, was long overdue. The architects said they were surprised at the poor state of the apartment.

For one thing, the electrical system was not up to code. Some rooms still used old 125-volt electrical outlets, which were phased out years ago in Italy in favor of 220 volts. The water pipes were encrusted with rust and lime, and the heating system was approximate at best.

Above the false ceiling, workers discovered big drums placed strategically to catch the leaks from the roof; some were nearly full of water.

The makeover included[size=4] renovation of the medical studio[/size], which is said to include emergency surgery and dentistry equipment. The papal bedroom, situated at the corner of the building, was completely redone, and most of the rooms were freshly wallpapered.

[size=4]The new kitchen was reportedly outfitted by a German company, with state-of-the-art ovens, ranges and other appliances.[/size]

Those who frequented the papal apartment under Pope John Paul II have no doubt that the place needed an overhaul. Polish film director Krzysztof Zanussi, a friend of the late pope, once said he was astonished at the gloominess of the place, with its outmoded furnishings and lack of lighting.

"Everything was in semidarkness, somber and without inspiration. The chairs were like the ones my aunt had in the suburbs of Warsaw," Zanussi said. "It was not a place that made one feel good."

The papal apartment wraps around two sides of the Apostolic Palace and is accessed by a doorway that opens onto a historic loggia decorated with frescoes. [size=4]The layout includes a vestibule, the library, a small studio for the papal secretary and the pope's private studio, from which he blesses the crowd every Sunday.[/size]

The other rooms include the pope's bedroom, the medical studio, his private chapel, a small living room, a dining room and kitchen.

The papal apartment didn't always have a bird's-eye view of St. Peter's Square and the city of Rome. In fact, it was only in the late 1300s that popes established their permanent residence at the Vatican.

The masterfully decorated apartments of Renaissance pontiffs like the Borgia pope, Alexander VI, are now part of the Vatican museums. The most famous papal apartment was that of Pope Julius II, who had rooms decorated with a cycle of frescoes by Italian artist Raphael Sanzio.

It was Pope Pius X who transferred his apartment to the top floor of the Apostolic Palace in 1903. In 1964, Pope Paul VI completely remodeled the papal residence, and Pope John Paul made his own changes early in his papacy.

In the late 1930s, the huge attic above the apartment was remodeled to make a series of mini-apartments that open to the inner courtyard. They house members of the pope's household staff, and one is said to have been refitted as a guest quarters for Pope Benedict's brother, Msgr. Georg Ratzinger.

The fact that workmen finished the pope's apartment in only three months impressed everyone in Rome, where even small-scale renovations seem to take forever.

"I had a small house built for me in Germany once," the pope told the workmen. "I'm convinced that anywhere else this project would have taken a year or perhaps longer."

From a German pope to his Italian makeover team, it was a high compliment.

END[/quote]

[Dave]

The descriptions you give and cite regarding the pope's apartment still don't constitute a penthouse.

[cmotherofpirl]

Budge do you comphrehend the difference between deference to a person and deference to an office?

[hopeful1]

[quote name='Dave' post='1060749' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:27 PM']
Seems to me Budge has already told on herself. She basically said she didn't get anything out of religion class. Well, Budge, it's obvious from what you've said that you didn't put anything INTO it!
[/quote]

After going through Catholic Schools from K-12, i'm afraid that's the attitude a lot of students have.

[Anomaly]

Budgie,
There is a big difference between renovating an out-of-code apartment and a penthouse. Be honest.

But seriously. I left the Catholic Church by choice, but you are no different than the other hypocrites that worship their denomination without common sense. You are the other side of the two edged sword that weilds Scripture like a mace. Like other denomination zealots, you find a greater satisfaction in pointing out what's wrong with everyone else, then in sharing what's right. I find your type of attitude just as repugnant as the Catholic rad-Trads, the Muslim Extremists, and the good ol' Southern Baptists and all the other worshipers of their Denomination God.

[Mercy me]

Budge, I stand by my earlier remarks. You have not shown that you have knowledge of what the Church teaches. You only spew untruths. What a shame. All those years and you learned nothing what so ever. My feeling is that you still have no desire to find out what the Church actually teaches.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060655' date='Sep 11 2006, 10:02 AM']

But here's the problem......

Now did I learn the gospel?


The Catholic Church long ago departed from Christ and elevated ITSELF as the way to salvation.

There's the problem.

Without the Holy Spirit there is no change in a person, no child will really come to love God.
[/quote]I'm not going to make any comment on what type of student you were that you missed so much, but...

The same problem is found in all the rest of the Christian 'turn or burn' denominations. They just tell you it's a personal relationship with Jesus, as long as you follow [u]their[/u] rule book.

Like that song, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

I won't be fooled again.

[Dave]

Oh yeah, Budge, I forgot to mention something ...

If you didn't hear the Gospel in the Catholic Church, then it's probably because you WEREN'T LISTENING.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]Catholics don't worship the pope, nor would any pope tolerate being worshiped![/quote]

Worship simply means to honour... so yes, I, a Catholic do worship the Pope, though the worship I give him is less than that of Latria or Dulia.

And, BTW, Anomaly, Traditionalist Catholics worship the same God that all Catholics do: The Holy Trinity.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Budge,

If that is truely the experience you had in school then hear from me that I am sorry. No child should go through life not knowing that Christ loves them and died for them.

On another note from your post, which religious ed texts are you looking at when you said the they teach the UN can do no wrong. I kno9w the text I use for my fifth grade class last year NEVER mentioned the UN. It idid statrt out with God is Love, and When we pray we talk to God. Jesus died for us because he loves us, and the like.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060835' date='Sep 11 2006, 03:58 PM']

Hey why would I find St. Paul to be bad? I was a UU where anti-Chrsitianity is preached from the pulpits. "christ was an insane iternirant preacher" that was a favorite line of one of my latest UU minister.

God can forgive all sins. Even the worse evil person can repent and come to Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Oh my goodness, you used to be an UU? I can understand why you are so angery about being tricked into relativism. I too am angry about it for it denys the Truth, who is Jesus. I will even agree with you that water-down Christianity, whether it be Catholic or not, is even abhorent to the Living God.

[Budge]

[quote]On another note from your post, which religious ed texts are you looking at when you said the they teach the UN can do no wrong. I kno9w the text I use for my fifth grade class last year NEVER mentioned the UN. It idid statrt out with God is Love, and When we pray we talk to God. Jesus died for us because he loves us, and the like.
[/quote]

My text as a child didnt talk of the UN except rarely I am talking about a religious ed text I was forced to use as a RE teacher in the Catholic Church...just a few years ago.

Wish I had kept it but I had to give it back to the church, it had a Nautilus Shell design on the cover.

[quote]
Oh my goodness, you used to be an UU? I can understand why you are so angery about being tricked into relativism. I too am angry about it for it denys the Truth, who is Jesus. I will even agree with you that water-down Christianity, whether it be Catholic or not, is even abhorent to the Living God.[/quote]
[u]
So do you GET WHY the Catholic and duped Prot Interfaith movement and march to Revelation 17 makes me want to literally HURL?[/u]

[img]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0385504608.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img]

UU Logo representing all the Worlds religions.

We were taught day after day, that all religions led to God and should come together for peace. Remember I was a fan of Alice Bailey who taught that synthesis of all the worlds religions was the ideal.

[img]http://www.uuwausau.org/History2_files/image010.jpg[/img]

One telling day was realizing a prayer at Assisi, that I read right off the Vatican website definitely matched the Lucis Trust Invocation.






[quote]Oh yeah, Budge, I forgot to mention something ...

If you didn't hear the Gospel in the Catholic Church, then it's probably because you WEREN'T LISTENING.[/quote]

Yeah blame it on the kid, I suppose that may be easier to do, then accepting the fact that the gospel is not preached in Catholic churches.

I was nearly a straight A student, I think if I had been taught the gospel I would have "gotten it."

Actually even though I consider Hal Lindsey a date setter and a false preacher in some things, some seeds were planted in me reading The Late Great Planet Earth in Catholic school, which the nuns took away from me twice, this was my first exposure to Bible Prophecy, something that definitely led me back to Christ.

The first time I heard the gospel was as a college student, by then after years of Catholic confusion and my new introduction to UUism, the Christians preaching the gospel to me were unable to get through the fog but they planted seeds as well.

I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Budge

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061451' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:23 PM']
I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.
[/quote]

Salvation is a Free gift, just like when my father (earthly) gave men his old car cause mine broke down. But I still had to put gas in the car to make it work.

[Budge]

Just another way for you to tell me...

What Jesus did on the cross wasnt enough...

A Christian sees Salvation as Completed in Jesus Christ.

A Catholic sees Salvation as needing additions from Mary, themselves, the Treasury of Merit, Purgatory, and NOT completed in Jesus Christ.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061524' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:43 PM']
Just another way for you to tell me...

What Jesus did on the cross wasnt enough...

A Christian sees Salvation as Completed in Jesus Christ.

A Catholic sees Salvation as needing additions from Mary, themselves, the Treasury of Merit, Purgatory, and NOT completed in Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Maybe you might want to join the debate thread on making complete the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. I am truely interested in your thoughts there. Catholics do see salvation completed by Christ.

[Budge]

Come on you just told me the complete opposite...
[quote]
Catholics do see salvation completed by Christ.[/quote]

Which is it?

if you have to put gas in to make it work, its not completed is it?

[quote]
Salvation is a Free gift, just like when my father (earthly) gave men his old car cause mine broke down. But I still had to put gas in the car to make it work.

[/quote]

[Anomaly]

Budge,
Make some philosophical and theological arguments based on principle, not just denominational choices. You are no different than the rabid Caths here.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061551' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:56 PM']
Come on you just told me the complete opposite...
Which is it?

if you have to put gas in to make it work, its not completed is it?
[/quote]

I may not have made my analogy clear. Salvation is completed by Christ. The Gift of Salvation on the cross is there but we must chose to accept it, and follow it. The same way the car was able to work and complete, but I have to choose to put gas in the car to make it work. Again I suggest you look at the the thread here on the debate table on making the suffering of Christ complete

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061451' date='Sep 12 2006, 05:23 PM']

Yeah blame it on the kid, I suppose that may be easier to do, then accepting the fact that the gospel is not preached in Catholic churches.

I was nearly a straight A student, I think if I had been taught the gospel I would have "gotten it."

The first time I heard the gospel was as a college student, by then after years of Catholic confusion and my new introduction to UUism, the Christians preaching the gospel to me were unable to get through the fog but they planted seeds as well.

I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.
[/quote]

I am confused by what you mean by the gospel is not taught in the Church. My thinking is that of course it is because it is read at every mass followed by a homily on the readings. This does not seem to be what you are talking about.