Well We Never Gave Trent Her Crusade

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064837' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:25 AM']
My post was actually not directed toward your idea, it just worked out that way chronologically! I think the idea is dope. The Vatican scientists should develop a slime to create a race of turtle-men to weild numchucks and bow staffs against wickedness, while staying obscure by dwelling in Roman sewer systems.
[/quote]

That would be awesome

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064821' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:06 AM']
[Edited by Moderator: Inappropriate content]

*Sorry Holy Father. Please don't excommunicate me. It's all in good fun.*

:
[/quote]
if you did that to a Muslim guy you'd be facing ritual beheading.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1064835' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:24 AM']
It is not "underground" Jihadist are very much standing right out in front, and in our faces. Would defending Christendom cause destruction? Yes of course, but you and Era are incorrect, it will be destructive well beyond proportion not to defend Christendom, and scream peace, when there is no peace.

You really should research The Holy War declared by the Jihadist, they are much more centralized than you may believe.
[/quote]
All I am saying is that a modern military crusade is impractical. No nation will take up this cause. The uproar in the middle east would be enormous. Can you imagine the chaos? It could make the mass murder of the 20th century look innocent.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064837' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:25 AM']
My post was actually not directed toward your idea, it just worked out that way chronologically! I think the idea is dope. The Vatican scientists should develop a slime to create a race of turtle-men to weild numchucks and bow staffs against wickedness, while staying obscure by dwelling in Roman sewer systems.
[/quote]
that's dope.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064787' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:22 AM']
If someone comes to blow up your Church, you are free to stop them.

You have no right to go around killing people in the name of vigilante self-defense. You are not a special ops soldier on a mission to take out a grand mufti. You're a private citizen. You have no authority to kill people in the name of civil law, let alone in the name of God almighty.

Leave the soldiering to those who have responsibility for the common good; the civil authorities.
[/quote]

There is no Just Authority i an Athiest State. All Authority comes from God not from "the people" no government which denies Him can have Authority. They have Power but not Authority. That arguement doesn't hold much weight coming from the traditional Western Catholic understanding of Authority. Furthermore, if natural authority does come from the people there is no magical definition of what number of people that might be, a dozen or so people certianly have as much right to wage war as do 12 million, assuming that all that is required to do so is concent of the group. No there is no reason that our government has any more right to send soldiers into battle than the principal down at your local elementary school does, there is no political organ with "Authority" in the Untied States( and certianly not the UN).

[Era Might]

Don John,

Your post passes over too many distinctions and nuance. For example, you cite an "infallible council" as if the fact that a Council dealt with something infallibly means everything it says is infallible. From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

[quote]The subject matter of infallibility, or supreme judicial authority, is found in the definitions and decrees of councils, and in them alone, to the exclusion of the theological, scientific, or historical reasons upon which they are built up. These represent too much of the human element, of transient mentalities, of personal interests to claim the promise of infallibility made to the Church as a whole; it is the sense of the unchanging Church that is infallible, not the sense of individual churchmen of any age or excellence, and that sense finds expression only.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm[/url][/quote]
Besides that, most Ecumenical Councils dealt with dogmatic questions, and also with discipline and governance of the Church, which is under no divine guarantee of effectiveness or surety.

Also, Pope Benedict recently addressed historical religious violence on the 20th anniversary of the gatherings in Assisi:

[quote]It could be objected that history has experienced the regrettable phenomenon of religious wars. We know, however, that such demonstrations of violence cannot be attributed to religion as such but to the cultural limitations with which it is lived and develops in time.

Yet, when the religious sense reaches maturity it gives rise to a perception in the believer that faith in God, Creator of the universe and Father of all, must encourage relations of universal brotherhood among human beings

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20060902_xx-incontro-assisi_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict...-assisi_en.html[/url][/quote]
The Holy Father specifically separates the Catholic religion from religious wars which have taken place in its name, because war is always a civil matter, not of the Church, even when they were justified in the name of Catholicism. War is not part of the Church, let alone comparable to transubstantiation.

[Guest Rick777]

I wonder if it's close to being the end of the world? It would be kinda cool. I hope that doesn't sound crazy.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1064839' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:28 AM']if you did that to a Muslim guy you'd be facing ritual beheading.[/quote]
Better ritual beheading thane excommunication!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064825' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:12 AM']
I think it would be destructive well beyond proportion and have little or no chance of defeating what is basically an underground minority group. Era is correct to point out that at the time of the crusades, the Pope's call was taken up by nations (and I doubt any current nation would take this crusade up). Islam is no longer the more centralized unit it was in the middle ages either.
[/quote]


No it wasn't it was taken up by private freemen and petty nobles, in fact he specifically states as much in the injunction.

"O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."

Those who have been robbers, mercenaries, fighting there brothers--- no ths is not targeted at a nation but at individuals. And That is who answered it, it was not for another 100 years that the Nations responded and that was only to defend the KIngdom of Jeruselem.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Rick777' post='1064848' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:35 AM']
I wonder if it's close to being the end of the world? It would be kinda cool. I hope that doesn't sound crazy.
[/quote]


Isn't that what we've been waiting for for 2000 years?

I think it would be cool too....kinda scary!! But cool...

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064849' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:36 AM']
Better ritual beheading thane excommunication!


[/quote]
very true.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Who will fight this crusade?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064854' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:39 AM']
Who will fight this crusade?
[/quote]
When you think about it, the Pope calls a world youth day and millions of youth from around the world show up.. Just a thought.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1064857' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:42 AM']
When you think about it, the Pope calls a world youth day and millions of youth from around the world show up.. Just a thought.
[/quote]

: I love our Church.... and us! (the youth!)

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1064857' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:42 AM']
When you think about it, the Pope calls a world youth day and millions of youth from around the world show up.. Just a thought.
[/quote]
I don't think they would show up for this one. And I don't think they'd have the weaponry either...

[Era Might]

John Paul already led his own crusade against communism, and he didn't need a single weapon to bring the enmy down.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064840' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:29 AM']
All I am saying is that a modern military crusade is impractical. No nation will take up this cause. The uproar in the middle east would be enormous. Can you imagine the chaos? It could make the mass murder of the 20th century look innocent.
[/quote]


As I stated before the Jihadist are much more centralized than it seems you, and many believe. And become more centralized every day. I agree at this time, right now, no nation will take up this cause but if say a Jihadist nukes NY, or Spain, or kills the Pope, that will no doubt change.

Look at the uproar in the middle east, just because of a few words from the Pope, or a cartoon. It does not take much to cause such uproars, preaching the Truth of Christ will cause a uproar by Jihadist, and the beheading of a christian. Greater battles in this Holy War are coming... there is no peace, not now.

I have no doubt it will take much more Christian blood to be spilled before Christendom, stands up and fights the Holy War declare by the Jihadist. The Jihadist who do not want peace with you they will only stop their blood lust when they kill or covert us all, [u]or we defeat them.[/u]

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064862' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:44 AM']
John Paul already led his own crusade against communism, and he didn't need a single weapon to bring the enmy down.
[/quote]

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I am in total agreement with you, Era.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='thedude' post='1064861' date='Sep 17 2006, 01:43 AM']
I don't think they would show up for this one. And I don't think they'd have the weaponry either...
[/quote]
I disagree. The Church is never going to call for a crusade, but just hypothetically speaking here, I believe that if the Jihadists did something extreme (like assasinated the Pope) and the next Pope called for it, you would see a militia of [b]millions [/b] eagerly awaiting orders. And there are plenty of Catholic countries who would be willing to supply arms.