Democracy Is A Tool Of Satan

[Era Might]

Thomas,

You are wrong, as the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council explains:

[quote]There is a further consideration. The religious acts whereby men, in private and in public and out of a sense of personal conviction, direct their lives to God transcend by their very nature the order of terrestrial and temporal affairs. Government therefore ought indeed to take account of the religious life of the citizenry and show it favor, since the function of government is to make provision for the common welfare. However, it would clearly transgress the limits set to its power, were it to presume to command or inhibit acts that are religious.

--Declaration "Dignitatis Humanae"[/quote]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1079571' date='Sep 29 2006, 05:33 PM'] Save yourself the trouble and ignore me now. Within 45 minutes there will be a catholic disagreeing with you and then I'll make a pointed comment and we both already know what that's going to result in.[/quote]
Will do.

God bless.


goldenchild,

I'll save my response for when we discuss this privately.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1079573' date='Sep 29 2006, 05:38 PM']goldenchild,

I'll save my response for when we discuss this privately.
[/quote]

Seeing how this has gone so far, good idea.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1079573' date='Sep 29 2006, 04:38 PM']
[quote]Save yourself the trouble and ignore me now. Within 45 minutes there will be a catholic disagreeing with you and then I'll make a pointed comment and we both already know what that's going to result in.

edit...

I should have said, 'within 4 to 5 minutes', not 'within 45 minutes'.

We got two winning posts. One that says you misunderstood the ambiguity of the catechism and the other saying your qualification about the current cultural circumstances is not applicable.

The catholic denomination is as effective as cracking a walnut with a marshmallow.[/quote]
Will do.

God bless.[/quote]Did you mean that 'God bless' as a heart-felt and sincere wish that I might enjoy God's love, or did you mean it as a dismissive 'May God have mercy on your soul as it sends it to hell in flames'?

Meanwhile, back to cracking walnuts...
I think you were called out with the Vat-2 reference, Tom.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]There is a further consideration. The religious acts whereby men, in private and in public and out of a sense of personal conviction, direct their lives to God transcend by their very nature the order of terrestrial and temporal affairs. Government therefore ought indeed to take account of the religious life of the citizenry and show it favor, since the function of government is to make provision for the common welfare. However, it would clearly transgress the limits set to its power, were it to presume to command or inhibit acts that are religious.[/quote]

Era, you are misinterpreting this. All this says is that the government cannot prohibit Catholics from adoring God in public and private, but they can prohibit non-Catholics from adoring their false idols in public. The Syllabus of Errors fills in where this paragraph was left in ambiguity saying that they not only can prohibit non-Catholics from praciticing their religion in public, but must.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1079586' date='Sep 29 2006, 05:44 PM']God bless.Did you mean that 'God bless' as a heart-felt and sincere wish that I might enjoy God's love, or did you mean it as a dismissive 'May God have mercy on your soul as it sends it to hell in flames'?

Meanwhile, back to cracking walnuts...
I think you were called out with the Vat-2 reference, Tom.
[/quote]

From what I know about him, it was sincere. No need to look for inferences that aren't there.

Edited September 29, 2006 by goldenchild17

[peach_cube]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1079543' date='Sep 29 2006, 06:14 PM']
The following are [b]condemned[/b] as [i][b][color="#CC66CC"][u]ERRORS[/u][/color][/b][/i] by Pope Pius IX:
[/quote]

[img]http://internal.tbi.net/~max/snap017.jpg[/img]

Sorry...I couldn't help myself.

[avemaria40]

My view, God gave us free will, why don't we give each other that? (as long as of course, everyone's safety and happiness is protected.)

[Resurrexi]

The saftey of the soul is even more important that the safety of the body.

[aalpha1989]

Your poll question is flawed. Democracy CAN be a tool of Satan, just like monarchies, republics, dictatorships and any other type of government. Democracy isn't evil in and of itself. It can be used in evil ways, legalized abortion for instance. But evil laws or lack of good laws is not dependant on the type of government, it is dependant on those governing, whether chosen to govern or otherwise. It is not a government's job to regulate its citizen's spiritual health, that is why we have the Church. Just because there are some bad laws does not condemn a whole system. Get over it. Just because we have some bad priests does not condemn a whole Church either. It's the same thing.

[Resurrexi]

I believe that Democracy is errored and evil in itself, and I have a right to hold that opinion becuase it is not against Church teaching.

[goldenchild17]

I'm not sure I agree on this point. In a completely Catholic country, that employed the principle of not allowing falsehood to be a factor in persuading government, how is it necessarily a bad thing? I think essentially democracy is a less effective model of government than is commonly thought. But I don't think it would be considered evil if used in a Catholic country. How is it evil, or sinful, to have differing opinions on non-salvific matters and to choose the leader who best fits this?

[Budge]

[quote]Americanism is a term for a heresy, or rather a series of related heresies, that were thought to have been held by many members of the Roman Catholic church in the United States of America around the turn of the 20th century. In essence, the label was mainly applied to American bishops by bishops and popes from other countries.
[edit]

Dogmatic/Theological aspect

[b]The Americanist heresy is defined as the endorsement of what were thought to be anti-Catholic principles embraced by the United States: absolute freedom of the press, liberalism, individualism, complete separation of church and state, etc. These were condemned by the popes of the time.[/b] The most notable and concise condemnation was in the Syllabus of Errors of Pope Pius IX.[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy)"]LINK[/url]

Think Rome supports things like Democracy, freedom, etc, THINK AGAIN.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1079726' date='Sep 29 2006, 08:32 PM']
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy)"]LINK[/url]

Think Rome supports things like Democracy, freedom, etc, THINK AGAIN.
[/quote]
This article is about the construct of a society in regard to liberties. Democracy is a form of government. This article does not say the Catholic Church was against democracy.

The label describes the dangers of unbridled freedoms. When America or any other country bases their freedom on rights absent God and natural law, they lead themselves down a dangerous road. Example: Abortion. Do you believe is such a thing as "abortion rights"?

It's also understandable the popes of the time to be wary of America. Members of the KKK, predominately and philosophically tied to Protestantism, were busy marching against, harassing, and beating Catholics.

[Socrates]

How ironic.

A [b]poll[/b] about democracy being evil!

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1079657' date='Sep 29 2006, 07:12 PM']
I believe that Democracy is errored and evil in itself, and I have a right to hold that opinion becuase it is not against Church teaching.
[/quote]


And you replied to my points....how? You didn't support your belief at all, all you did is claim your right to hold such a belief, only possible because you live in a democracy. Otherwise government agents would be monitering this thread and you would already be in custody, no longer to reply even with pointless comments like that one.

[Resurrexi]

Even in monarchies such as the UK and Spain you can trash monarchy. Also, I'm not saying that you have to believe Democracy is evil and errored in itself, and I really don't think you're in error or anything if you don't think so, I'm just saying that it's not a sin for me to believe Democracy is evil

[avemaria40]

I'd rather pick the people who run our country. That way, you know what this person stands for and you have a say in what kind of policies are enacted. With a monarchy you could have a really good person and ruler but the next heir could be a total tyrant. you would never have a say.

[Resurrexi]

Remember though, any moron can be elected president, but kings are prepared their whole life to reign.

[avemaria40]

There are some kings who still turned corrupt or who were morons. You have those in any system of govn't. I'd rather have our good old American system. Besides, the monarchy in England is seen as a symbol more than anything else. It's the Prime Minister and the Parliament who make the crucial decisions.

Also, how would you know if God was calling someone to be king?

[Resurrexi]

Because He chose them to be born into the Royal Family, duh. Kings are obviously the most obvioulsy divinely selected office (after the Popes) becuase humans have not control who they are.

Edited September 30, 2006 by StThomasMore