Are You A Born Again Child Of God?

[Budge]

[quote]Religion is the Worst Thing that Ever Happened!

Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this world. Tons and tons of books about the religions of the world have been printed. The figure is beyond count. Many religious people are totally blinded by the good deeds system. They have no concept of the doctrine of the total depravity of man (that all men are corrupt, evil, sinful and unable to please God in their own human efforts). They think of “total depravity” in terms of people who lie around in the gutter. Actually, those individuals who lie around in the gutters might be respectable compared to some religious people.

The sins of religious people are amongst the most awful sins of all. The sin of pride for example is fantastic. The sin of legalism is the system of trying to impress God with something you can do, rather than be impressed with what God has done through Jesus Christ.

Let’s consider a religious person talked about in the Bible. His name was Nicodemus. He was a very well educated man. He was a Pharisee (religious leader). Nicodemus was a very proud, vain, legalistic and hypocritical man. He came to Jesus at night, for Nicodemus was a very busy man. No doubt, he hoped to impress Jesus with his flattery. He addressed Jesus as “Rabbi” (an official title of honor). To Nicodemus, Jesus was a teacher, nothing more. Though Nicodemus had a body and a soul, his spirit was dead. He had no ability to fellowship with God, because he was “spiritually dead”. He had never been born spiritually.

If you are to be “born from above” or “born-again”, you must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. This is such a wonderful truth that is taught in the Bible. Many people, far beyond count, just don’t believe upon the Son of God. They believe in a God; maybe a god of wood, of stone, of metal, of spirit, of knowledge, of power, of nature, etc., etc., etc.

Religion by the ton, of every sort, of every kind. Religion, religion and more religion. People have all kinds of ideas what God should be like. If they can’t find a god that is already made for them, they will make a new god to their liking.

It is very difficult for some people to realize they are sinners, they feel they are very good people. Many don’t believe in a god, of any kind. They do not believe that there is anything beyond the grave.

In short; many believe we are born, live and we die, the end!

However, so many questions about life are with us all the days of our life and they must be answered one way or another. In this life, a time comes when we must settle in our hearts whether or not a God does exist. Is there life after death? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? What is the purpose of life? Does God really give us eternal life? Will God actually punish people in hell? Is God, if there is a God, telling me the truth? Look at the world today and the destruction sin causes! Will the wicked really be turned into hell? WE ALL HAVE TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND MANY MORE because they need to be answered. No person can escape having to decide the answer to these questions; no one, it’s a part of life! You may decide you want nothing to do with God at all, but THEN THAT IS YOUR DECISION. See, you have to decide!

Many religions will offer you answers to these questions, but the answers are not found in religion. The answers are found in a person, the Lord Jesus Christ, God’s only begotten Son!

Miracles are happening today, just as in the time of our Lord Jesus. You may have not thought about this before, but it takes a miracle to become a child of God. Salvation is a supernatural act of God in response to our child-like faith in Christ alone. When we reach that point in life where God has drawn us to make that decision to either accept or reject His Son Jesus Christ as our Savior from sin, a miracle will or will not take place; depending on what we do with Jesus. Whether we reject or accept the Son of God as our Savior is totally up to each of us. If we reject Christ, no miracle of the new birth takes place.

On the other hand; if we accept Christ as our Savior, admitting that we are sinners and that we do want Christ to come into our hearts, our sins will be forgiven immediately. The new birth takes place immediately...not partially over time, not in steps; but instantly the very second we accept Jesus as Savior. We then belong to God, we are adopted into His family. A miracle has taken place and according to the Scriptures, there is no power, no person, or anything in this universe that can separate us from the love of God; which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:35).
[b]
The question of accepting or rejecting Christ must be settled in your heart. Whether you are a church-goer, give lots of money to charities, and do all kinds of religious works, it really doesn’t matter. What matters is—ARE YOU A BORN AGAIN CHILD OF GOD? No amount of religion or outward self-righteousness can help you on judgment day. Salvation is not found in a religion; but in a person, Jesus Christ. It’s simple! You are a sinner in need of a Savior. Stop trying to save yourself and decide to rely upon Jesus. Only Jesus paid for your sins, so only He alone can save! From your heart, simply ask Jesus to forgive your sins and become your Savior. Decide to rely upon Him alone to save your soul[/b].[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

THis is the debate board, do you have a point?
You know Catholics are baptised into the Body of Christ.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i got saved when i was 6 months old. you know i just wanted more out of life

[MilesChristi]

Thanks be to Jesus that He instituted a Church to preserve His teachings and propogate them through the ages until He comes again. Otherwise, I'd probably be lost among the thousands of denominations which each preach a different version of Christ, none of them fully accurate. Through the greatness of God's Providence, I whom am a poor sinner have a relationship with the very same Jesus who taught the apostles.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I was born again about 3 months after birth.

[Anomaly]

Budge make a point? Yeah, right. I'ts more likely the devil will give away flavored snow cones in hell.
Budge's posts is more like the devil setting up snow cone carts in hell. He sets them up, but you'd have to be a raving lunatic to think the devil is actually going to sell snow cones, or if he did, anyone would have enough money.
Devil - I sell snow cones, but nobody in hell is hot enough to buy them.

People in hell - The devil sell snow cones for $1,000,000. but everyone here is naked floating in molten sulphur, we have no jobs or money, and in addition to the $1,000,000 price tag, you need a letter from God giving your permission to buy snow cones. (The letter has to be notarized by Moses as well).

Yeah, it's more likely Satan will give away snowcones in hell than Budge making a point, sticking to it, and defending challenges.

Edited October 15, 2006 by Anomaly

[MIKolbe]

"Decide to rely upon Him alone to save your soul."

OK. Done.

Now what?

Can i go back to sinning now? Do i get to ignore Him from now on? I can throw my Bible away right?? I mean, I'm good to go now.....right?

Commandments? I don't need no stinking Commandments.. i just decided to rely on Him Alone.

Baptism?? yeah-right! When the Bible, that i just threw out, says that i cannot enter the kingdom of God unless i am born again with water and the spirit, it REALLY meant i AM NOT to do that because that means i do not rely upon Him alone to save my soul.

Eurcharist- i mean REALLY! when the Bible, that i just threw out, says that i will no life <zoe> in me unless i <trogo> the body of Christ and drink His blood, it REALLY meant i AM NOT to do that beacuse that means i do not rely upon Him alone to save my soul.

I mean, i am to have a personal relationship with Christ, right? As in ALL personal relationships, nothing i do in that relationship matters. I have a personal relationship with my wife.. so cheating on her is ok.. i mean, i have a personal relationship with her. I have a personal relationship with my friends, i guess i can steal their money when they aren't looking.. i mean.. i have a personal relationship..you see, it's the fact that i have a relationship that matters..not how i react as a relation-able part of that relationship. A relationship consists one person, not two.

And the exegesis of ROM 8:35 is the best, most on-target i have ever seen!

</sarcasm>

Welcome back Budge!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote]Budge make a point? Yeah, right. I'ts more likely the devil will give away flavored snow cones in hell.
Budge's posts is more like the devil setting up snow cone carts in hell. He sets them up, but you'd have to be a raving lunatic to think the devil is actually going to sell snow cones, or if he did, anyone would have enough money.
Devil - I sell snow cones, but nobody in hell is hot enough to buy them.

People in hell - The devil sell snow cones for $1,000,000. but everyone here is naked floating in molten sulphur, we have no jobs or money, and in addition to the $1,000,000 price tag, you need a letter from God giving your permission to buy snow cones. (The letter has to be notarized by Moses as well).

Yeah, it's more likely Satan will give away snowcones in hell than Budge making a point, sticking to it, and defending challenges.[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

Its really very simple:


I'm already saved (Rom 8:24, Eph 2:5-8),
but I am also being saved (1 Cor 1:8, 2 Cor 2:15, Phi 2:12),
and
I have the hope that I'll will be saved (Rom 5:9-10, 1 Cor 3:12-15).
Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phi 2:12),
with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom 5:2, 2 Tim 2:11-13).

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1092306' date='Oct 15 2006, 07:00 PM']
Budge make a point? Yeah, right. I'ts more likely the devil will give away flavored snow cones in hell.
Budge's posts is more like the devil setting up snow cone carts in hell. He sets them up, but you'd have to be a raving lunatic to think the devil is actually going to sell snow cones, or if he did, anyone would have enough money.
Devil - I sell snow cones, but nobody in hell is hot enough to buy them.

People in hell - The devil sell snow cones for $1,000,000. but everyone here is naked floating in molten sulphur, we have no jobs or money, and in addition to the $1,000,000 price tag, you need a letter from God giving your permission to buy snow cones. (The letter has to be notarized by Moses as well).

Yeah, it's more likely Satan will give away snowcones in hell than Budge making a point, sticking to it, and defending challenges.
[/quote]
Aside from the complete lack of relation to the topic, is this really necessary? I just find the caustic attitude a bit tiring and uncharitable, don't you?

[Cam42]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1092334' date='Oct 15 2006, 05:24 PM']
Aside from the complete lack of relation to the topic, is this really necessary? I just find the caustic attitude a bit tiring and uncharitable, don't you?
[/quote]

Yep.

Oh by the way, I was 14 days old.

[brendan1104]

I was baptized when I was 56 days old- on the feast of the Holy Family, 1990. Thank God for these blessed waters of regeneration!

But to quote homeschoolmom's signature:

[quote]I'm already saved (Rom 8:24, Eph 2:5-8),
but I am also being saved (1 Cor 1:8, 2 Cor 2:15, Phi 2:12),
and
I have the hope that I'll will be saved (Rom 5:9-10, 1 Cor 3:12-15).
Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phi 2:12),
with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom 5:2, 2 Tim 2:11-13).[/quote]

[avemaria40]

I was born again as a child of God when I was 14 yrs old, through the waters of baptism

[KnightofChrist]

I was born again at the age of 3, right before my heart operation.

[Budge]

So you all believe you become born again at baptism?

I have had other Catholics tell me that.

I was given a Catholic baptism at the age of 10 days.

I know for a fact personally I was not born again. {so why did your baptisms "take" and mine didn't?} Given we were all babies, no personal responsiblity would have been part of this picture. What did we know? Was I a bad to the bones baby, and you all good babies?

I grew up and almost became a UU minister where I would have been an official enemy of Christ. How do you explain all the people who get baptized and grow up as secularists, Christ-rejecters and outright atheists and agnostics. Even Madilyn O' Hare was baptized as an infant in some mainline prot church.

I do not believe that infant baptism leads one to be born again, and it worries me for you all because it may make you think you are born again...when youre not. {I dont know for each individual here, thats for God to know}

There is such as thing as just KNOWING ABOUT Christ, and NOT KNOWING HIM...One cannot be saved by their parents beliefs. They can be taught, but I know if I had a child, they would need to enter into their own saving relationship with Christ, I could not do it for them. The problem is infant baptism almost teaches that the parents can do it for the baby.

I know the day and time I become born again and turned my life over to Christ, and the immediate changes it wrought.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093046' date='Oct 16 2006, 02:20 PM']I grew up and almost became a UU minister where I would have been an official enemy of Christ. How do you explain all the people who get baptized and grow up as secularists, Christ-rejecters and outright atheists and agnostics. Even Madilyn O' Hare was baptized as an infant in some mainline prot church.[/quote]The topic always has to return to Unitarian-Universalists...

In any event, the separation of "Born-Again" from "Baptized" is a modern invention. There is no early separation of the two concepts. The only defense I've seen of this separation is by those who talk about the baptism of St. John the Baptist (side note: just because he is "the Baptist" doesn't mean he founded the Baptist religion). Also, along with St. Paul, we Catholics don't believe in eternal security after being born again/Baptised (cf. [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp"]"Assurance of Salvation"[/url]). In reality, of course, Protestants don't believe in it, either. The Protestant loophole is that people who apostatize never were [i]truly[/i] saved, even though they thought that they were assured salvation when they "accepted Jesus".

Regarding the plagiarized rant against religion, I wonder how many names they would call an [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts18.htm#v18"]early Church leader (link)[/url] who took the [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10727a.htm"]Nazarite Vow[/url], ritually cutting his hair, etc. Would this name-calling against Nicodemus ("a very proud, vain, legalistic and hypocritical man...") be applied to his fellow Pharisee, St. Paul?


[quote name='Budge' post='1093046' date='Oct 16 2006, 02:20 PM']There is such as thing as just KNOWING ABOUT Christ, and NOT KNOWING HIM...One cannot be saved by their parents beliefs. They can be taught, but I know if I had a child, they would need to enter into their own saving relationship with Christ, I could not do it for them. The problem is infant baptism almost teaches that the parents can do it for the baby. [/quote]This is like saying that we shouldn't teach people to have faith in Our Lord because "it almost teaches" that we are saved by our own choice, instead of the grace of God.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093046' date='Oct 16 2006, 12:20 PM']
So you all believe you become born again at baptism?

I have had other Catholics tell me that.

I was given a Catholic baptism at the age of 10 days.

I know for a fact personally I was not born again. {so why did your baptisms "take" and mine didn't?} Given we were all babies, no personal responsiblity would have been part of this picture. What did we know? Was I a bad to the bones baby, and you all good babies?

I grew up and almost became a UU minister where I would have been an official enemy of Christ. How do you explain all the people who get baptized and grow up as secularists, Christ-rejecters and outright atheists and agnostics. Even Madilyn O' Hare was baptized as an infant in some mainline prot church.

I do not believe that infant baptism leads one to be born again, and it worries me for you all because it may make you think you are born again...when youre not. {I dont know for each individual here, thats for God to know}

There is such as thing as just KNOWING ABOUT Christ, and NOT KNOWING HIM...One cannot be saved by their parents beliefs. They can be taught, but I know if I had a child, they would need to enter into their own saving relationship with Christ, I could not do it for them. The problem is infant baptism almost teaches that the parents can do it for the baby.

I know the day and time I become born again and turned my life over to Christ, and the immediate changes it wrought.
[/quote]Budge,
Your entire confusion is based on an mistaken and incomplete understanding of Grace.
We are given Faith by Grace, but if we don't take care of it, sins (weeds) will choke it out.
Where does it say in the Bible, "Once Saved, Always Saved"?

[KnightofChrist]

Did not Paul go and baptize entire houses and families? He would baptize "All of them that were in the house", now in most all cases families and houses have babies, and children, and Paul bapitized alot of familys and alot of houses. So it is very logical that Paul did indeed bapitize children, and babies, and if Paul can do it, so can the Church. But when Paul did baptize Holy Scripture says he would baptize "all" within the house, "all" not just the adults and teens, "all". All people within the familys and houses He baptized would include Adults, Teens, Childern, and infants. And Holy Scripture teaches us, that Paul baptized them all, and there is no need to specifically state age. Age was not a issue then, only until 1000 of yrs later did that become the case. Anyhow, scripture sayth "All," not some...

Also, remember

"The disciples rebuked them that brought the them (children). Whom when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and saith to them: Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God. Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, shall not enter into it."

Can you see where Christ words can be applied to infant baptism? Baptism is how we come to Christ. Christ tells us directly not to forbid the children from coming to Him. And denying baptism to children is forbiding the children from Christ.

Edited October 16, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093046' date='Oct 16 2006, 12:20 PM']
I know the day and time I become born again and turned my life over to Christ, and the immediate changes it wrought.
[/quote]

Say you became severely mentally handicap, and forgot the day and time you became born again, and all the things you know of Christ, would you cease to be saved?

[CatholicCid]

Budge somewhat reminds me of a radio show I listened to once... I actually thought it was a satire for the first like 10 minutes, then realized the lady was serious...

She had been through 2 religions first... Born into one and left that. The next one she was with and got "saved" till she met her husband and she was "truly saved" and brought into his religion... He eventually became a pastor and they lived happily for 15 years... Then, it hit her! She wasn't saved
While she had found the right religion and had been living a good life in that religion for 15 years, she still hadn't truly accepted Jesus yet...
It was like a lightning strike when she realized clear as day that, even though she thought she knew Jesus, she was actually tricking herself.
So, she once again "found" Jesus and was finally saved...

The callers were fun with her... Asking what exactly was she those times before it when she thought she was "saved"?

So Budge, when you were almost a UU minister and all that, before becoming a Baptist... How did you feel? Did you feel "saved" then? Forget all the bias and such you have know and try to remember your honest feelings from back then.
How do you know, that say 1 year down the line, you won't realize you weren't really "saved" right now? That you were mistaken? And that you'll need to be "saved" again.
How do you suddenly know you're "saved" now?

Edited October 16, 2006 by CatholicCid