Debate Between Budge And Raphael

[Budge]

[quote]One billion people worldwide definitely aren't[/quote]

Ah that BILLION "narrow way"

[Galloglasses]

Actually, its a Billion and a couple million on the side.

[Paladin D]

I think it makes sense now.

Is Budge a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

[Galloglasses]

Harsh XD

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1564521' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:44 AM']Ah that BILLION "narrow way"[/quote]
To clarify, not all of the 1.15 billion people in the Catholic Church will necessarily go to heaven. Our population has nothing to do with whether or not we are the "narrow way."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1564501' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:37 AM']Ok prove me wrong. NAME ONE THING NOT IN THE BIBLE THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE SAVED.

This is the typical Catholic sloganeering, that disses the Bible and defends people's "god" of their own making.[/quote]
Stay on topic, Budge. You really do grasp at straws to avoid the debate, don't you?

I haven't dissed the Bible at all, though. I've simply said that the Bible does not make everything it says explicit, such that without Tradition, it is not sufficient.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Budge' post='1564501' date='Jun 9 2008, 09:37 AM']Ok prove me wrong. NAME ONE THING NOT IN THE BIBLE THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE SAVED.[/quote]

For one I would say explicit formulations on the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and the Eucharist to start out. I mean there are scriptural bases for all three topics, but it is within tradition that the definitive doctrines are formulated and expounded. Without an authoritative tradition, who knows how long arianism or monophysitism or gnosticism would have been hanging around en masse. Anyway...I love how you changed the subject rather than actually addressing Raphael's post. Very protestant of you, if I do say so myself: just keep trying to protest rather than offer substantial support for the counterarguments against your protests...

[Galloglasses]

Veridicus, let this be a debate between Raphael and Budge, keep our tidbits to ourselves.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1564793' date='Jun 9 2008, 01:05 PM']For one I would say explicit formulations on the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and the Eucharist to start out. I mean there are scriptural bases for all three topics, but it is within tradition that the definitive doctrines are formulated and expounded. Without an authoritative tradition, who knows how long arianism or monophysitism or gnosticism would have been hanging around en masse.[/quote]

Okay...who stated to hold on to traditions that have been handed down.... hmmm...

Apostolic Tradition [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp[/url]

Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? [b]Not according to the Bible[/b]. While we must guard against merely human tradition, [b]the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
[/b]
[b]Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2)

...and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, STAND FIRM and HOLD to the TRADITIONS which you were taught by us, either by WORD of MOUTH or by LETTER"

(2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we COMMAND you, brethren, in the NAME of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that you KEEP AWAY from any brother who is LIVING IN IDLENESS and NOT IN ACCORD with the TRADITION that you RECEIVED FROM US" (2 Thess. 3:6).[/b]

[b]To make sure that the APOSTOLIC TRADITION would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses ENTRUST TO FAITHFUL MEN WHO WILL BE ABLE TO TEACH OTHERS ALSO' (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.[/b]

The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously.

[quote]Anyway...I love how you changed the subject rather than actually addressing Raphael's post. Very protestant of you, if I do say so myself: just keep trying to protest rather than offer substantial support for the counterarguments against your protests...[/quote]

Yes, Budge, PROTESTETH MUCH against the APOSTOLIC TEACHING, which is WRITTEN in THE BIBLE.

Budge the posters on your board are so disillusioned that they do not know what to believe and they are practically a one man Church. They search high and low for a church who agrees "their interpretation" of the bible.

God is not the author of confusion. He gave us a teaching and preaching church founded on the rock of Peter, which is the pillar and ground of truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against her teachings.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1564870' date='Jun 9 2008, 12:40 PM']Okay...who stated to...
.....
...which is the pillar and ground of truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against her teachings.[/quote]

Well stated!

[Galloglasses]

Guys. Missing the point of a person to person debate here.

You have excellent points but let Raphael and Budge debate and keep this to ourselves. Or as Raphael said earlier, offer up the pain of not helping out with our posts.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1564885' date='Jun 9 2008, 01:48 PM']Guys. Missing the point of a person to person debate here.

You have excellent points but let Raphael and Budge debate and keep this to ourselves. Or as Raphael said earlier, offer up the pain of not helping out with our posts.[/quote]
Thanks.

I appreciate the help everyone, but this is a debate between two people for a reason. No matter what arguments we may have on our side, it's fair that Budge not be bombarded. We can't expect one person to take on more than one. Even a person with better arguments could lose a debate if outnumbered.

That said...Budge has already violated phorum guidelines and one of the mods sent her on vacation again. Not sure how long she'll be away.

God bless,

Micah

[Galloglasses]

What did she do this time?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1568209' date='Jun 11 2008, 12:40 PM']What did she do this time?[/quote]
If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

[Galloglasses]

You wouldn't have been the first to have tried, good sir.

Spill.

[jeffpugh]

I think she made two terrible remarks toward PMers... check this table for the most recently moved Budge thread. therein lies your answer.

[reyb]

Is there any conclusion on this debate?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='reyb' date='12 March 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1268436625' post='2072035']
Is there any conclusion on this debate?
[/quote]
Considering Budge is banned, I don't think we're going to finish. This was a bad thread choice to bump.