Catholic Clergy With A Glimpse Of Truth

[Budge]

There are good Catholics out there who do have Glimpses of truth.

In fact I have talked before about how the IRL Catholics I know differ from online Catholic apologists, every IRL Catholic I know would be horrified at someone defending the Inquisition. I meet Catholics all the time who IRL instead of glorifying church institution over God, do try to follow what God wants first even if they are still blocked from Gods Word.

I certainly dont agree with him about everything, but you can tell too when God is moving into the CENTER place in someone's heart even if they
are in error about some things. I know learning is a process and a true seeker after God, certainly has more chance to coming to complete truth.

[quote]If you're sick to your stomach, I suggest a little alka seltzer and, perhaps, some reflection upon a Gospel that places more emphasis upon the "Spirit," rather than upon the "Letter." The Spirit gives life, whereas the letter brings death, my friend.

Catholic fundamentalism is as deadly and retrograde as Islamic fundamentalism...it all springs from the same fountain of narrow-mindedness...and fear. [b]I think it's very sad, and yet very telling that the Gospel call of Jesus Christ is still so often obscured in favor of man-made church laws, hierarchies, institutional infrastructures, and flat-out lies.[/b]
The fact remains that Catholic scholars (in good standing) the world over are dissenting and questioning both the history and the teaching authority of the Roman pontiff on such matters, millions in the laity are questioning it, and thousands in the dwindling ranks of our clergy are doing the same.

The fact remains that the Roman Pontiff has not always held the monarchical, alleged "infallibility" of authority peddled to the masses(no pun intended) via the utterly corrupt Curia. In fact, the popes have traditionally made it their business to run the Petrine office into the ground through centuries of hubris and indecency.

If you bothered to study an impartial history, you would find that Popes have taught some pretty ludicrous things and proclaimd them *ex cathedra* and as "binding for all time," but few listened then and, I suspect, few will listen in the longterm today.

[b]The fact remains that I am a member of the Catholic Church, a priest of the Catholic Church, and have a call (and God-given right) to speak against visible injustice and corruption in the institution, rather than perform as some robot churned out of the priest-factories of old. [/b] The marvelous part is that you can't even call me a "liberal" priest. Indeed, I decry the horror of abortion, I am against the rampant promotion of homosexual culture, I am a champion of devotion to Mary, and I truly believe in the primacy of the Petrine office!

However, I believe that the Petrine office must be restored to its ORIGINAL, HISTORICAL, BIBLICAL dynamic, which was a "primacy of love," wherein the Shepherd of Shepherds serves as a sign of unity, a persuader of love, and a "strengthener" of the faithful--First among Equals with ALL the bishops-- a moderating figure whose work it is to *steer* toward unity the many different questions that arise concerning the unfolding mystery of Faith. This was the original function of the petrine office for the first millennium (or more) of the Christian Church (East or West).

[u][b]The notion of the Pope as an empirical, dictatorial, "infallible" pompous monarch over the entire People of God is a corruption of horrific proportions, and one that is primarily responsible for the most scandals and the greatest divisions and splits that have taken place in the Visible Body of Christ on earth--the Church.[/b][/u]

The papacy has been in need of severe, radical reform since medieval times, and if you don't agree with that, you have a seriously damaged worldview. If you don't think there are thousands of Godfearing, good-standing Catholic scholars, priests, and laity who recognize this, you need to take a long, hard look at your perception.

[b]Our Protestant brothers and sisters recognized this, but opted to leave because they were dealing with a legacy of Papal "Emperors" who (at that time and even into the last century!) were too wrapped up in their silks and diamond-encrusted crowns and gowns to humble themselves for the sake of God's People.[/b]
Well, the time has been coming to pay the piper. I love and admire John Paul II as a great Christian man of holiness and a very media-worthy shepherd. Great statesman, great Christian, mediocre Pope. As for my devotion, it is very simply to the Person of Jesus Christ, the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, the celebration of the Eucharist that *He* has given us to share amongst ourselves, the active love of neighbor, and the defense of justice.

In a very, very secondary measure, I look to the Petrine office as a primacy of love that has fallen on hard times (spiritually) for centuries, and is only now beginning to restore itself. But my Catholicity is dependent upon no Pope.[b] No indeed...my main and only lasting fidelity as a Catholic Christian (and priest) is to Jeus Christ, and even as a priest I will defend my right to dissent to the death, unafraid of a pompous, largely irrelevant Curia.[/b]
Peace to You in Christ and Mary,

Br. Finn[/quote]

[url="http://p105.ezboard.com/fxcatholicfrm6.showMessage?topicID=2279.topic"]LINK[/url]

1. Would you like this priest at your parish?

2. Should such a priest be promoted?

Edited November 8, 2006 by Budge

[RC_]

Ahh...yes...more anti-Catholic gibberish.

Edited November 8, 2006 by RC_

[123]

Hilariously, it seems to me that you only pick the arguments that favor your point of view. Sadly, you also seem to mix up what the author of this article is trying to say.

My point is...

If this rubbish:

[quote]Our Protestant brothers and sisters recognized this, but opted to leave because they were dealing with a legacy of Papal "Emperors" who (at that time and even into the last century!) were too wrapped up in their silks and diamond-encrusted crowns and gowns to humble themselves for the sake of God's People.
[/quote]

Is trying to disprove the authority of the pope, he could be excommunicated, or consider a heretic of the Catholic Church. First of all he is not and he is also not condoning the break of Martin Luther in 1517.The authority of Peter as the first Pope (Or Bishop as our Anglo-Catholic brothers believe.) Is a 2000 year old Tradition (Capital "T", which means permanent or unchangable.) What make you think that this guy is going to effect the ecumenical see in Rome? Honestly. He was established (Biblicaly for all you Sola Scriptura crusaders out there.)
in Matthew 16.

Trying reading the Bible instead of a apologist who favors your position. I'm pretty sure the Scriptures would be more reliable that him.

And the following wasn't to slam the pope.

[quote]The notion of the Pope as an empirical, dictatorial, "infallible" pompous monarch over the entire People of God is a corruption of horrific proportions, and one that is primarily responsible for the most scandals and the greatest divisions and splits that have taken place in the Visible Body of Christ on earth--the Church.[/quote]

Hilarioulsy, he was disproveing the mentality that protestant have cemented in their minds about the Catholic Church. Kind of like the mentality that you have.

If this priest came out about this and was speaking ill against the leader of the church. He could very well be thrown out.

Edited November 8, 2006 by GloriaIesusChristi

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115271' date='Nov 8 2006, 03:14 PM']
In fact I have talked before about how the IRL Catholics I know differ from online Catholic apologists, every IRL Catholic I know would be horrified at someone defending the Inquisition.
[/quote]
Are we not real people?

[Budge]

So he's anticatholic expressing all that love for his church?

Actually he seems to really love the people in it, which is what matters.

You folks define anticatholic, as anything YOU DONT LIKE.

[quote]Are we not real people?[/quote]

Actually Im not sure...

hehehehe

You dont act like anyone I know, I dont seem to meet too many "get out the stakes and burn those heathen!" types in my daily off line life.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115271' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:14 PM']
There are good Catholics out there who do have Glimpses of truth.

In fact I have talked before about how the IRL Catholics I know differ from online Catholic apologists, every IRL Catholic I know would be horrified at someone defending the Inquisition. I meet Catholics all the time who IRL instead of glorifying church institution over God, do try to follow what God wants first even if they are still blocked from Gods Word.

I certainly dont agree with him about everything, but you can tell too when God is moving into the CENTER place in someone's heart even if they
are in error about some things. I know learning is a process and a true seeker after God, certainly has more chance to coming to complete truth.
[url="http://p105.ezboard.com/fxcatholicfrm6.showMessage?topicID=2279.topic"]LINK[/url]

1. Would you like this priest at your parish?

2. Should such a priest be promoted?
[/quote]

He's a priest? It says "Br. Finn"...

1. No. He doesn't know Catholic teaching and he's unfamiliar with history.

2. Priests aren't "promoted." Being a priest is a vocation of service, not a job of rank.

[RC_]

I was refering to the drivel that made up your post.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115285' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:26 PM']
So he's anticatholic expressing all that love for his church?

Actually he seems to really love the people in it, which is what matters.

You folks define anticatholic, as anything YOU DONT LIKE.
[/quote]
No, we call anything against the Catholic faith anti-Catholic.

Anyway, my question is this: are you admitting that people can hold to certain falsehoods and to certain truths at the same time? Your title suggests it.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115285' date='Nov 8 2006, 03:26 PM']
Actually Im not sure...

hehehehe
[/quote]
How do I know [b]you[/b] are real? I have never met anyone like you!

[quote name='Budge' post='1115285' date='Nov 8 2006, 03:26 PM']
You dont act like anyone I know
[/quote]
You have no idea how often I get that

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote]The notion of the Pope as an empirical, dictatorial, "infallible" pompous monarch...[/quote]By empircal, does he mean, "derived from or guided by experience or experiment", which is the definition of the term?

Honestly, it seems to be a stretch to believe that posting this propoganda will spur thoughtful dialogue. Then again, thoughful discussion was probably not your intent.

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1115279' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:22 PM']Are we not real people? [/quote]I thought you were a squirrel.

[123]

[quote]Honestly, it seems to be a stretch to believe that posting this propoganda will spur thoughtful dialogue. Then again, thoughful discussion was probably not your intent.[/quote]

Maybe it was. Since I have been here this member seems dig his/her grave with his/her tounge.

The image of the Catholic Church isnt dicatorship,it's a heirarchy as described by Christ.

I seriouly recommend you to read the Bible. Please, read the parts that almost impossible to mis-understand.

Edited November 8, 2006 by GloriaIesusChristi

[Budge]

[quote]The image of the Catholic Church isnt dicatorship,it's a heirarchy as described by Christ.

I seriouly recommend you to read the Bible. Please, read the parts that almost impossible to mis-understand.[/quote]

Like this one?



Matthew 20:25But Jesus having called them to [him], said, Ye know that the rulers of the nations exercise lordship over them, and the great exercise authority over them.

26 [b]It shall not be thus amongst you[/b], but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your servant;

27 and whosoever will be first among you, let him be your bondman;

28 as indeed the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.

[Winchester]

Problem is, Budge, you were dealing with people trying to bring out the historical context of the inquisition and then judge it without judging the people within the inquisition. I myself said there was bad in addition to the good in the inquisition, but you ignored that in favor of condemning all aspects of all inquisitions.

Perhaps you meant that the very idea of having an inquisition was wrong, but amidst your invective, any chance for rational discourse was lost. You react with too much hyperbole, too much "fire," and not enough feather. You will note my civil discussion with Kizzie about middle ages necromancy, in spite of the serious topic not at all in favor of clerical holiness.

Perhaps it is youthful exhuberance that moves you.

[Budge]

I dont want to hear your excuses Winchester, your defenses, your quibbles and your rationalizations for the defense of evil.

The whole thing was wrong.

Anyone who defends the Inquisition has absolutely no love in them.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1115333' date='Nov 8 2006, 05:04 PM']
Like this one?
Matthew 20:25But Jesus having called them to [him], said, Ye know that the rulers of the nations exercise lordship over them, and the great exercise authority over them.

26 [b]It shall not be thus amongst you[/b], but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your servant;

27 and whosoever will be first among you, let him be your bondman;

28 as indeed the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.
[/quote]

Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet and dry them with the towel around his waist. He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Master, are you going to wash my feet?" Jesus answered and said to him, "What I am doing, you do not understand now, but you will understand later." Peter said to him, "You will never wash my feet." Jesus answered him, "Unless I wash you, you will have no inheritance with me." Simon Peter said to him, "Master, then not only my feet, but my hands and head as well." Jesus said to him, "Whoever has bathed 6 has no need except to have his feet washed, for he is clean all over; so you are clean, but not all." For he knew who would betray him; for this reason, he said, "Not all of you are clean." So when he had washed their feet (and) put his garments back on and reclined at table again, he said to them, "Do you realize what I have done for you? You call me 'teacher' and 'master,' and rightly so, for indeed I am. If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash one another's feet. I have given you a model to follow, so that as I have done for you, you should also do.
[right]-John 13:5-15[/right]

[img]http://www.catholiccharitiesok.org/images/pope_washing_feet.jpg[/img]