Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 The wealth of the Church only makes sense if you view the Church as the beloved and adorned bride of Christ. Your ecclesiology is what needs work, Budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1115366' date='Nov 8 2006, 05:34 PM'] John 12 5: "Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?" 6: This he said, not that he cared for the poor [/quote]Of all the apostles that Budge could imitate, it's ironic that she's chosen to follow the path of Judas Iscariot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1115338' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:08 PM'] I dont want to hear your excuses Winchester, your defenses, your quibbles and your rationalizations for the defense of evil. The whole thing was wrong. Anyone who defends the Inquisition has absolutely no love in them. [/quote] Never defended evil, but I did point out good judicial procedures in some of the courts. But of course, dismissing a case right away if the accused listed among his enemies who had reason to bear false witness was bad. Yes, that was wrong. I'd like you to quote me excusing an evil of the Inquisitions, along with the link. In my memory, I've excused nothing and have not intended to. Of the times that I've asked for this quote, you've not been able to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I guess eloquence in the earthly house of Christ is a foreign thing to Budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Budge, would you tell God He wasn't worthy of the best and of gold? I think wise men disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1115367' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:36 PM'] I of course know that scripture, Jesus is right, it is ok to enjoy beautiful things in this life from time to time... However the Pope doesnt need to be playing humble...with a solid gold pitcher... How many gold items are there in the Vatican? Probably beyond us being able to count. I live a very frugal lifestyle, no gold bars, pitchers, basins, for me... and thats fine, if I had a gold pitcher, thered be a few friends Id be helping out right now. [/quote] Judas was living a frugal lifestyle as well when he spoke the words of John 12. It doesn't matter how much concern you might have for the poor. The arguements you are making are made for the purpose of dissing the Church rather than creating a flood of money for the poor. That's a fact and that is the context of the words in John 12 as well. They do not well up out of a concern for the poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1115338' date='Nov 8 2006, 05:08 PM'] I dont want to hear your excuses Winchester, your defenses, your quibbles and your rationalizations for the defense of evil. The whole thing was wrong. Anyone who defends the Inquisition has absolutely no love in them. [/quote]Neither Winchester nor I nor any Catholic I've ever known, and that's a bunch, "defends the Inquisition" in the sense that we hold it up as the ideal. However, for the last 400 years Protestants have told outrageous lies about the Inquisition, and the lies continue to this very day. Justice demands that we defend our Church against the lies. The Church is the Bride of Christ. His very Body, and we are compelled to defend her against these lies. The lies do not acknowledge the carnage of Protestants against Catholics. There's no comparison between the number of lives lost through the evil of abortion, promoted by many Protestants, and the Inquisition. Protestant churches that do not approve abortion but permit chemical contraception, and that's every one of them including the Orthodox, are complicit in abortion because "the Pill" is an abortifacient. I don't want to hear your defenses, your quibbles, and your rationalizations for the evils of abortion, responsible for killing 25,000 babies a week in the U.S. through surgical abortion alone. ================================== Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1115367' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:36 PM'] I of course know that scripture, Jesus is right, it is ok to enjoy beautiful things in this life from time to time... However the Pope doesnt need to be playing humble...with a solid gold pitcher... How many gold items are there in the Vatican? Probably beyond us being able to count. I live a very frugal lifestyle, no gold bars, pitchers, basins, for me... and thats fine, if I had a gold pitcher, thered be a few friends Id be helping out right now. [/quote] The gold items in the vatican are not the property of any one person but the property of the Church, which we are part of. The fact that they are still there should be testiment to the frugality of the Church...they could have been sold off long ago for cold hard cash and used for all kind of sinful delights. Instead they were preserved for the generations of people tp enjoy and maybe be inspired by or learn from. The Vatican attracts more than just Catholics you know, who view and study the treasures. Besides, a lot of what the church has it either earned or accumulated through gifts of faithful that wanted to give. I have made several expensive vestments for my Church to be kept as property of the Church and not the priest (though I have also gifted several to preist friend of mine). I put hours and hours of labor into these pieces, sewing them with love and paying for the materials out my pocket. WHY? Because for me making something that will be used in Mass is a prayer for me and act of devotion. The design, the work, the effort, the gift, is my gift it is what I could do and did do. I enjoyed making it and I enjoyed giving it. The nice things in Catholic churches should not be seen as meerly wealth but as a physical manifestation of spiritual devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1115271' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:14 PM'] I meet Catholics all the time who IRL instead of glorifying church institution over God, do try to follow what God wants first even if they are still blocked from Gods Word. [/quote] You, Budge, have accused the Catholic Church of "blocking its members from God's Word." Please answer these questions: (1) What is God's Word and how do you know? (2) How does the Church "block us" from the Word? (3) Do you get a "burning in the bosom" like the Mormons claim they do that proves to them that the Book of Mormon is God's Word? (4) Exactly how do you know what His Word is (related to Q 1)? I've yet to see you answer the questions asked of you by the Catholics on this forum, and I suppose these will also also go unanswered. It's hard to imagine that an ex-Catholic could know so little and misunderstand so much. Lord, have mercy. ================================== Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 The Catholic church didnt write the Bible. When one studies the BIble, the Bible inteprets instead, you have to read it as a whole instead of snipping a verse here and there. Every false religion takes or adds to Gods Word. Mormonism and Catholicism have a lot of parallels by the way. Catholics add their traditions. Mormons add their Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of a Great Price... Mormons are required to follow a top Prophet {leader} who is considered infallible as well. The Mormons salvation is dependent on a church system instead of Christ. Mormons must go through rituals {sacraments} to attain salvation. Mormons also have a priesthood, and do not teach a priesthood of all believers. Mormons have expensive temples dripping with gold and riches in their Celestial Rooms... Catholicism has the same with its Cathedrals. Both have adopted aspects of paganism. Both are members of mystery Babylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1116745' date='Nov 10 2006, 11:00 AM'] The Catholic church didnt write the Bible. When one studies the BIble, the Bible inteprets instead, you have to read it as a whole instead of snipping a verse here and there.[/quote] 1. Yes, it clearly did. To deny that is to deny history. 2. We do read it as a whole. How about reading a Catholic book on the unity of Scripture? I think you'd find it fascinating. [quote]Every false religion takes or adds to Gods Word. Mormonism and Catholicism have a lot of parallels by the way.[/quote] You've just condemned your own religion. [quote]Catholics add their traditions. Mormons add their Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of a Great Price...[/quote] We've had the Tradition debate time and time again. First, you're saying that traditions are infallible. They aren't. Tradition is. Please get it right. [quote]Mormons are required to follow a top Prophet {leader} who is considered infallible as well.[/quote] The Mormon prophet changes His mind. Never once has the pope changed his mind on doctrine. Never. [quote]The Mormons salvation is dependent on a church system instead of Christ.[/quote] And the Catholic view of salvation is dependent on Christ acting in and through His Mystical Body, the Church. "The Church is Christ and Christ is the Church. I see no reason to confuse the matter." -St. Joan of Arc [quote]Mormons must go through rituals {sacraments} to attain salvation.[/quote] Rituals are different from sacraments, although they are related. [quote]Mormons also have a priesthood, and do not teach a priesthood of all believers.[/quote] Interesting. We do both. [quote]Mormons have expensive temples dripping with gold and riches in their Celestial Rooms... Catholicism has the same with its Cathedrals.[/quote] Your point being? Unless of course you mean that someone needs to mop up the dripping gold. [quote]Both have adopted aspects of paganism. Both are members of mystery Babylon.[/quote] Wrong. We have no aspects of paganism. We have Christianized some aspects of cultures which had been belonged to by pagans...but then, so have you. Wrong again. The "mystery Babylon" is your own little theory and certainly not Scriptural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC_ Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Budge- Why do you continue to defend the reformation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farsight one Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1116745' date='Nov 10 2006, 10:00 AM'] The Catholic church didnt write the Bible.[/quote]Uh...yeah, it did. Divinely inspired by God of course. [quote]When one studies the BIble, the Bible inteprets instead, you have to read it as a whole instead of snipping a verse here and there. [/quote]I would just say that you should read this sentence again and apply it to yourself. Time and time again I see you spit out bible verses whose meaning alone implies what your trying to say. However, you take it out of context. Take the verses in context and they mean something else entirely. [quote]Every false religion takes or adds to Gods Word.[/quote]How many books did your faith remove from the already established bible? [quote]Mormonism and Catholicism have a lot of parallels by the way.[/quote]So? Ballroom dancing and sex have a fair amount of parallels. Is ballroom dancing guilty by association? [quote]The Mormons salvation is dependent on a church system instead of Christ.[/quote] Not something we have in common with mormons at all. It is dependent on Christ for us. The church is a "tool" for lack of a better word to help us get to Christ. [quote]Mormons have expensive temples dripping with gold and riches in their Celestial Rooms...[/quote]Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be mormon to get into a mormon temple? From what I understand talking to a couple of mormons, what the inside of a temple actually looks like is very closely guarded, so how would you know? [quote]Both have adopted aspects of paganism.[/quote]We have not adopted aspects of paganism. We have inserted the faith into aspects of paganism to aid in conversion. Once again, just a parallel anyways. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 BUDGE [quote]Never defended evil, but I did point out good judicial procedures in some of the courts. But of course, dismissing a case right away if the accused listed among his enemies who had reason to bear false witness was bad. Yes, that was wrong. I'd like you to quote me excusing an evil of the Inquisitions, along with the link. In my memory, I've excused nothing and have not intended to. Of the times that I've asked for this quote, you've not been able to deliver. [/quote] Still waiting for you to address your accusation. Surprise, surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I know I'm not as interesting as soft core porn stars, but c'mon, Budgie, get my quote so I can restate. Please, since my actual words have led you astray, let me offer correction to them. Surely you recall actual words and will not have to mine all the threads. I'm certain that you did not in your haste to level an insult or out of a firm fear of being drawn into actual debate that you posted something to distract us! Surely a tactuic such as that would be beneath your grand intelligence and swift mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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