Protestant Traditions

[mulls]

[quote]We often encounter the claim about the "traditions of men" in Catholic beliefs and practices, and these are intended to be used as an antidote.[/quote]

antidote? fight fire with fire huh?

[quote]Sola Scriptura Protestants have many traditions that did not originate from the Bible.[/quote]

duh. it's not a problem. no sane protestant would condemn another one if they didn't practice any number of these traditions, because it's not mandated in the bible.

the difference is, as catholics, you [b]must[/b] do a bunch of stuff that's not in the bible, because Tradition is part of the 3-legged stool, right? that's the argument from the protestant side.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='mulls' post='1132153' date='Nov 30 2006, 04:49 PM'] because Tradition is part of the 3-legged stool, right? that's the argument from the protestant side.
[/quote]
Isn't the three-legged stool the branches of gov't (legislative, executive, judicial)? I'm not familiar with a three legged Catholic stool. I'm not poking fun, just claiming ignorance.

[cosiegirl]

Don't forget these annoying Protestant traditions:

- Expecting people to be saved through their relationship with Christ rather their relationship with a Church.

- Not adding works to keep salvation.

- Respecting the Bible as God's inerrant and perfect Word rather than "the Church's Book".

[mulls]

ha get'em SS!


[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1132157' date='Nov 30 2006, 05:55 PM']
Isn't the three-legged stool the branches of gov't (legislative, executive, judicial)? I'm not familiar with a three legged Catholic stool. I'm not poking fun, just claiming ignorance.
[/quote]


this is how it's been explained to me multiple times. the Church is built on the 3-legged stool of Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium, each having an equal amount of authority.

who says i'm not catechized?

Edited November 30, 2006 by mulls

[Era Might]

[quote name='mulls' post='1132172' date='Nov 30 2006, 05:04 PM']this is how it's been explained to me multiple times. the Church is built on the 3-legged stool of Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium, each having an equal amount of authority.[/quote]
Close, but not fully accurate. Scripture and Tradition are given directly by God through the Apostles. The Magisterium is the servant of Scripture and Tradition. The Magisterium has authority in the sense that it is the authentic steward of Divine Revelation, but it does not have "equal authority" in the strict sense; for example, Scripture is inspired, whereas the Magisterium is protected, but not inspired. It would be more accurate to say that all three legs are indispensable, rather than that they have equal authority. Here is how the Second Vatican Council describes it:

[quote]It is clear, therefore, that sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God's most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls.[/quote]
Scripture and Tradition are the sources. The Magisterium is the bearer of information rather than its own source. It's similar to the concept of soul and body. Both are intimately united and necessary, but the soul is what informs the body, whereas the body takes its direction from the soul. Scripture and Tradition are the sources of Divine Revelation, and the Magisterium is the body by which this deposit of faith lives. It is not the body that dictates for the soul, but the soul that dictates for the body.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='SolaScriptura' post='1132164' date='Nov 30 2006, 06:01 PM']
Don't forget these annoying Protestant traditions:

- Expecting people to be saved through their relationship with Christ rather their relationship with a Church.[/quote]There is no dichotomy between Christ and His Church. He is the Head, the Church is His very Body, His Bride. The Resurrected Christ's words to Saul/Paul on the Road to Damascus: Why are you persecuting ME? St. Paul was persecuting the CHURCH. Christ and His Church are one and the same. "He cannot have God for a Father who has not the Church for a Mother" St. Cyprian.

[quote]Not adding works to keep salvation.[/quote]Sola Fide is a 16th century heresy.

[quote]Respecting the Bible as God's inerrant and perfect Word rather than "the Church's Book".[/quote]I continue to ask you, and you continue to ignore the question: Which Bible, Whose Canon? There are many different "Bibles" -- and I don't mean translations. How do you know which one is the 'real' Word of God? Are all of them "inerrant" and "perfect?" How do you know which writings belong in the Bible? Without the testimony of the Catholic Church who wrote the NT and formed the Bible, you can only say "I believe it because I believe it."

As we keep telling you, the CHURCH is the "household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Tm 3:15.

Look for the Church that was born in 33 A.D. at Pentecost, the Church that teaches the same in the 21st century as she taught in the first century. All Protestant churches follow the traditions of men. We know when they were founded and the names of their founders -- names like John Wesley, John Smyth, and Martin Luther, and thousands more. The founder of the Catholic Church was Jesus Christ, God Himself.

======================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Ellenita]

Protestant traditions I really miss:

kneeling to receive communion
incense
Bible study during the week
exuberance at baptisms/confirmations
joyful hymn singing


While I may be 'undoing' years of protestant theology in the teaching I received, I truely believe the discipline of daily bible study was a good grounding in my life as Christian.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Ellenita' post='1134717' date='Dec 4 2006, 11:27 AM']
Protestant traditions I really miss:

kneeling to receive communion
incense
Bible study during the week
exuberance at baptisms/confirmations
joyful hymn singing
While I may be 'undoing' years of protestant theology in the teaching I received, I truely believe the discipline of daily bible study was a good grounding in my life as Christian.
[/quote]
Yep, to all of the above.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' post='1132153' date='Nov 30 2006, 05:49 PM']

duh. it's not a problem. no sane protestant would condemn another one if they didn't practice any number of these traditions, because it's not mandated in the bible.[/quote]None of them are mandated in the Bible. That's the point. Why do folks who claim to base their faith on Sola Scriptura develop these unbiblical practices?

[quote]the difference is, as catholics, you [b]must[/b] do a bunch of stuff that's not in the bible, because Tradition is part of the 3-legged stool, right? that's the argument from the protestant side.
[/quote]"And so, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" 2 Thess 2:15 RSV.

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" Mt 16:18-19.

"Who hears you hears me . . ." Lk 10:16.

=======================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Winchester]

I think this would be better condensed as a rejoinder as opposed to an opening broadside cannonade.

[mulls]

[quote]
None of them are mandated in the Bible. That's the point. Why do folks who claim to base their faith on Sola Scriptura develop these unbiblical practices?
[/quote]


ayyye

are church parking lots unbiblical too by this definition?

how about picnics?

i think they are.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' post='1134793' date='Dec 4 2006, 02:29 PM']
ayyye

are church parking lots unbiblical too by this definition?

how about picnics?

i think they are.
[/quote]Parking lots and picnics are not doctrines and practices.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1131535' date='Nov 30 2006, 12:03 AM']
Anybody have any Protestant Traditions to add or subtract? Any comments?
------------------------------------------------------

Crackers or Wonder bread for communion
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Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]

My mom used to be Protestant, she said they used pita bread for communion at her church

[Katholikos]

[quote name='avemaria40' post='1136704' date='Dec 6 2006, 05:32 PM']
My mom used to be Protestant, she said they used pita bread for communion at her church
[/quote]Pita bread!

The most bizarre "elements" I've ever heard of were morsels of cinnamon toast and hot chocolate served as "communion" at a wedding. The bride and groom were given their choice by the officiating Protestant minister.

[homeschoolmom]

Mmmm tasty. Completely inappropriate, but tasty.

[mulls]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1136691' date='Dec 6 2006, 05:18 PM']
Parking lots and picnics are not doctrines and practices.
[/quote]


So define practice.

[got2luvjc]

wouldn't bible studies be a "work" though, and not a practice? I mean, you're growing in your own faith, but you're also helping others grow in theirs too... and I don't think it's a practice, cuz as far as I can remember, no is is expected to do it, it's optional

I went from Methodist to Catholic 9 years ago, so I don't think I have enough ground to rep the Caflic faith.. although I've come a long way since then, during high school I grew a lot in knowldege of the Faith

Edited December 7, 2006 by got2luvjc

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' post='1137038' date='Dec 6 2006, 10:51 PM']
So define practice.
[/quote]Simply put, doctrines = beliefs; practices = how beliefs are manifested.

[got2luvjc]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1137889' date='Dec 7 2006, 11:57 PM']
Simply put, doctrines = beliefs; practices = how beliefs are manifested.
[/quote]

ooooohhhhhhhh!! that makes sense.

So I think that in light of this, some things should be corrected... I think some people said that Bible studies are a protestant practice, but I think it's a Christian practice, cuz I do Bible studies sometimes... I always like to learn Scripture... it's kinda cool ya know and head bowing too, it's a Christian thing, cuz in mass sometimes the priest says @ the end "please bow your heads and pray for God's blessing"

but "a Christian thing" doesn't = everyone does it, but it's open to everyone I suppose

[frozencell]

I was a Protestant for a score of years (20). I was rather comfortable in the "traditions" and practices of the Protestant faith. After I became Catholic, I realized that my comfortability was actually a great hinderance to my faith. I got into a zone where I was just going because I was told to and I never adhered to the principles that were taught.

Later, I happened to pick up a book at a really small Catholic bookstore in Cincinnati. It's a book about how the worship of Mary and the saints in the Catholic Church is very much in line with the Bible; it detailed the levels of worship that should be rendered to Mary, saints, and God. After reading this book I saw how the Protestant "traditions" were a way of filling the void left by the rejection of Mary and the saints in community of the church family.

As Catholics, we give absolute and total worship to God alone. We highly revere the saints and Mary. There is a two-tier system of worship in the Catholic Church, whereas it is a single-tier setup in the Protestant community. Because of this, the "traditions" practiced by the Protestants in their worship of God is the same level of worship we provide to Mary and the saints. To God we offer an even higher worhip -- absolute and total without need of worry that we are substituting anything or anyone for Him.

Edited December 8, 2006 by frozencell