What If Billy Graham

[Urib2007]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1178666' date='Jan 28 2007, 12:26 PM']
Ditto.

Besides, videos can be doctored.
[/quote]

Ok, be close-minded.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1178672' date='Jan 28 2007, 03:37 PM']
Ok, be close-minded.
[/quote]
Its not close-minded to protect your computer from the blue screen of death.

Common sense says you don't download unknown content on the say-so of a stranger online.
Been there done that and it sucked.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1178672' date='Jan 28 2007, 03:37 PM']
Ok, be close-minded.
[/quote]
I'm not close-minded because I don't want a virus. I'm not close-minded because I think that people should be assumed innocent until proven guilty by legitimate sources. You are convinced that what you believe is true, but you have no proof of it for others to see. Your theories come from your fears and you look for support in places that were never intended to support your theories. The reason no one accepts your theories is because not everyone shares your fears. The way to see that it is your fear, and not the sources you try to use, that is the basis of your theories is by observing that your sources convert no one to your thinking. The only people who come to think like you are those who are as afraid as you and, like you, look for something to validate that fear. As Jesus said, do not see the signs of the times and try to prepare and begin to fret; when a person says it is the end, do not mind him. We are not to worry about what we shall do when the time comes (as hard as it is not to worry sometimes), but to trust in the Lord.

[dairygirl4u2c]

there's also a quote, which i can find if you really want proof, that mulls posted one time, where billy grahm said he'd be happy if only five percent of the people, "chrisitans", who go to his church will make heaven.

[Urib2007]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1178712' date='Jan 28 2007, 01:21 PM']
there's also a quote, which i can find if you really want proof, that mulls posted one time, where billy grahm said he'd be happy if only five percent of the people, "chrisitans", who go to his church will make heaven.
[/quote]

Will you post that quote, Dairy Girl?

[LouisvilleFan]

I'm sorry, but who gives a flying f-bomb???????? Does anyone here worship Billy Graham? Does anyone under the age of 40 hardly listen to the guy? I went to one of his crusades... it was allright... there was one speaker who tended a little too close to the Protestant work ethic spirituality for my tastes, but whatever. I gave money, but they spent it all on postage sending me carp I didn't care about, so I didn't give more (Catholic Answers is almost as bad... I don't remember ever giving them money, but they're always beggin' like the fate of the world rests on this week's desperate cause... anyway, sorry for the rant). God has clearly used him to bring people to Christ and, frankly, I don't know of one person who has come to Christ because of my own efforts (not that we're keeping score), but the point is let's just let him be because this thread is pure gossip.

Nobody here knows him personally, so we're just going by a bunch of quotes that are almost surely taken out of context and exaggerated. Remember when the Pope said something about killing Muslims? And when John Paul II kissed the Koran? And how that means Muslims are in communion with Rome, right?

As for the Masons... I'm gonna have to agree with the Catholic Church's stance that the oaths they take, even though they aren't "real" oaths, require Christians to walk a fine line that doesn't make their relationship with God any easier. However, your uncle or grandfather or neighbor down the street who happen to be Masons are just there for the fraternal community. My grandfather is a 33rd degree, even though he and his wife don't attend church anymore because of some nutty pastor, they are sincerely Christian. Among all the Christians I know, only two of them bothered asking to make sure I'm waiting for marriage to have sex when I was dating a girl over the summer. He was one of them, and he asked me directly, not kinda "by the way," like my cousin did. That meant a lot to me since it seems like 99% of Christians (not just the nominal church-goers) aren't all that concerned about sins of Lust... they might talk the talk, but who's walking the walk?

Anyway... now I'm a hypocrite for writing this long post since I don't like it when others write long posts (which I typically skim through), but there's my opinion

[Urib2007]

Well, if your granfather is indeed a 33 degree Freemason then he doesn't worship the God we do, but Lucifer. Check out Albert Pike whom is idolized in Freemasonry and also of course a 33 degree Mason. Oh, and you know the man who called himself "the beast incarnate?" Well, yeah you guessed it, Aleister Crowley. And what degree was he I wonder? 33 degree! And if you think he didn't worship Lucifer then you indeed my friend are ignorant and blind.

[center][img]http://www.freemasoninformation.com/art/ordo.gif[/img][/center]

[size=3] Albert Pike addressing the 23 Supreme Councils of the world on July 14, 1889:- "To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: 'the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. . ."

It is said that only two U.S. Presidents: Abraham Lincoln and John Kennedy, were not either Masons or elite members of affiliated bodies [/size]

[b]FREEMASONS[/b]

[mod]Edited to remove unproven libel. -Raphael[/mod]

Michael Richards, aka Kramer
-----------------------------------------

And these are just some of them.

[center][img]http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/illuminati/Henry_Makow/freemason.gif[/img][/center]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

We will NOT allow a defamatory list of alleged Masons.

Back it up with proof or it will be removed. Libel is illegal.

[cmotherofpirl]

Start with written proof from the Masons that these people are masons and satanic or delete the list

[123]

[quote]Billy Graham is a 33 degree Mason, which means he worships Lucifer for those of you who aren't in the "know" of what it actually means to be a 33 degree Freemason.[/quote]

Wow, sorta harsh...Forgive the gaps in my education, but I am not familar that the Masons had a 33 degree.

[quote](King) Umberto Agnelli


Michael Richards, aka Kramer
[/quote]

Is there a reason why his name is mentioned twice? Once, with his "revered" pre-fix and the second, without?

Edited January 29, 2007 by Raphael

[homeschoolmom]

I think the last "Billy Graham" and "Michael Richards, aka Kramer" are add-ons to an otherwise alphabetical list that was copied from somewhere...

[Urib2007]

Well, here's proof that Michael Richards is a Freemason as seen on Wikipedia. Now if Wikipedia is lying then I guess they will be sued for libel.

[b]Personal life[/b]

Richards married former casting director Cathleen Richards and they had a daughter, Sophia. The two were divorced in 1990 and he resides northwest of the San Fernando Valley, specifically the Conejo Valley, near Thousand Oaks, California.[b] Richards is a Master Mason and also holds 33° in the Scottish Rite.[/b] He was very active in preservation of Masonic research, and in his personal life is an avid reader. Richards holds memberships in the following lodges: Riviera Lodge No. 780, Culver City–Foshay Lodge No. 467, as well as the Southern California Research Lodge. Additionally, he is also a Life Member of the Los Angeles Scottish Rite Valley and a Life Member of the Scottish Rite Research Society.[6][7]

[center][img]http://www.texemarrs.com/images/michael_richards.jpg[/img][/center]

[Urib2007]

[center][size=4] DO FREEMASONS WORSHIP SATAN/LUCIFER?
[/size][/center]


[b]MASONIC DECEPTION[/b]

The Holy Bible describes Lucifer as " that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world" Revelation 12:9
[b]Deception is a strong element in Freemasonry. [/b]The Masonic Hierarchy intentionally misleads lower degree Masons. [b]33rd Degree Freemason Albert Pike[/b] stated this fact well in his well known book 'Morals And Dogma', "Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explainations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead...page 104-105 The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended he shall imagine he understands them." page 819
Albert Pike was a Luciferian (Follower of Lucifer) who confessed Lucifer as his own god. (see his quote below) He was the former Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Grand Sovereign Inspectors General of the 33rd Degree. There is also very strong evidence to prove that Pike founded the Klu Klux Klan.


[size=2][b]Below are quotes written by high level Masons praising Lucifer[/b][/size]

[b]'The Mysteries Of Magic' by Eliphas Levi [/b]

"What is more absurd and more impious than to attribute the name of Lucifer to the devil, that is, to personified evil. The intellectual Lucifer is the spirit of intelligence and love; it is the paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism." page 428

[center][img]http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/esoterica/images/levi_e02.jpg[/img]
[/center]
[b]'The Book Of Black Magic' by Arthur Edward Waite 33°[/b]

"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." page 244

[b]'The Secret Teaching Of All Ages' by Manly Palmer Hall 33°[/b]

"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed.....
{ Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " page CIV

[b]'The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry' by Manly Palmer Hall 33°[/b]

"When The Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy." page 48

[center][img]http://www.crucible.org/manly.jpg[/img]
[/center]

[b]'The Secret Doctrine' by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky [/b]

"Lucifer represents..Life..Thought..Progress..Civilization..Liberty..Independance..Lucifer is the Logos..the Serpent, the Savior." on pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

[center][img]http://www.helenablavatsky.com.br/index.1.jpg[/img]
[/center]
"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God." pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity...but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestial Light, 'the Holy Ghost' and "Satan' at one and the same time." page 539 (Volume?)

[b]Albert Pike 33°[/b]

"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition.
To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine.
If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.
Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."
Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l'Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588
[center][img]http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/apike.jpg[/img]
[/center]
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! Morals and Dogma page 321

[cmotherofpirl]

And the reason I care?

[LouisvilleFan]

For those who don't know, while men of any monotheistic faith are allowed to become Masons, the Scottish Rite is reserved only for professing Christians.

Of course, the question of whether a Catholic should become a Mason is already answered by the Church: No Which is why we have the Knights of Columbus.

[Urib2007]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1179331' date='Jan 29 2007, 09:44 AM']
Start with written proof from the Masons that these people are masons and satanic or delete the list
[/quote]

Hmmm.... You obviously do care if you are willing to always comment on my posts. Think about it, if you didn't care about them, you wouldn't comment on them. :-)
You'd simply ignore them.

I understand you must monitor them for "inappropriate" comments, but you did ask for proof and since I can't get written proof from them, I felt it appropriate that I post where I got the information from.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Urib, I asked you to provide proof from authoritative sources (Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, as it can be edited by anyone) for each and every name on your list. You will have one more shot before I delete it.

Don't misunderstand me; Masonry is a work of Satan and the Catholic Church condemns it, but we don't go around calling people masons without proof.

[Urib2007]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1179443' date='Jan 29 2007, 01:18 PM']
Urib, I asked you to provide proof from authoritative sources (Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, as it can be edited by anyone) for each and every name on your list. You will have one more shot before I delete it.

Don't misunderstand me; Masonry is a work of Satan and the Catholic Church condemns it, but we don't go around calling people masons without proof.
[/quote]

Dude, chill out man. First of all, I did provide proof from their own books. What more do you want?
Michael Richards is an outspoken 33 degree Freemason. It's not something new. He's openly talked about it. If you google each and everyone of the names on the list, you'll see that they are all indeed Freemasons. I know it would be too time consuming to do so, but I didn't just make up those people.

I'm sure many people reading my posts do believe what I say, but they choose not to defend my posts at all. I've studied media law and am quite aware of the term libel.
I have nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever because my claims are 100% true.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1179481' date='Jan 29 2007, 04:42 PM']
Dude, chill out man. First of all, I did provide proof from their own books. What more do you want?
Michael Richards is an outspoken 33 degree Freemason. It's not something new. He's openly talked about it. If you google each and everyone of the names on the list, you'll see that they are all indeed Freemasons. I know it would be too time consuming to do so, but I didn't just make up those people.

I'm sure many people reading my posts do believe what I say, but they choose not to defend my posts at all. I've studied media law and am quite aware of the term libel.
I have nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever because my claims are 100% true.
[/quote]
If someone agreed they would defend your post, pmmers are not shy on the debate board. You have offered no proof except for Mr Richards.

[Urib2007]

[center][img]http://www.lebaneselobby.org/lebanese/picture/L-A/Dave%20Thomas/dave-thomas.jpg[/img]
[/center]

Even Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's, was a Freemason.

"There is no doubt in my mind that Masonry is the cornerstone of America."
[b]Dave Thomas Founder of Wendy's International[/b]

"To me, Freemasonry is one form of dedication to God and service to humanity." [b]Norman Vincent Peale Minister and Author[/b]

"Freemasonry embraces the highest moral laws and will bear the test of any system of ethics or philosophy ever promulgated for the uplift of man."
[b]Douglas MacArthur General of the Army[/b]

"The Masonic Fraternity is one of the most helpful mediating and conserving organizations among men, and I have never wavered from that childhood impression, but it has stood steadfastly with me through the busy, vast hurrying years."
[b]George W. Truett
Southern Baptist Leader[/b]

"We represent a fraternity which believes in justice and truth and honorable action in your community...men who are endeavoring to be better citizens...[and] to make a great country greater. This is the only institution in the world where we can meet on the level all sorts of people who want to live rightly."
[b]Harry S. Truman President of the United States[/b]

* * *

Many of the world's most respected men-including business, miliary, intellectual, political, and religious leaders-have been or are Masons.

Eddy Arnold - Roy Acuff - Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin - Gene Autry - Daniel C. Beard - Francis J. Bellamy - Irving Berlin - Simon Bol¡var - Walter Boomer - Gutzon Borglum - Ernest Borgnine - Omar Bradley - James Buchanan - Arleigh Burke - Richard E. Byrd - B. H. Carroll - Mark Clark - William Clark Dewitt Clinton - Ty Cobb - W. T. Connor - Jack Dempsey - James Doolittle - Arthur Conan Doyle - "Duke" Ellington - Henry Ford - Gerald Ford - Benjamin Franklin - Clark Gable - James Garfield - Arthur Godfrey - Wolfgang von Goethe - Barry Goldwater - Samuel Gompers - John Hancock - Warren Harding - Jesse Helms - Sam Houston - Burl Ives - Andrew Jackson - Andrew Johnson - John Paul Jones - Benito Juarez - Rudyard Kipling - Marquis de Lafayette - J. B. Lawrence - John Lejeune - Charles Lindbergh - John Marshall - George Marshall - Thurgood Marshall - Jos‚ Mart¡ - Charles Mayo - Douglas MacArthur - Abner McCall - William McKinley - James Monroe - Wolfgang Mozart - Louis D. Newton - Norman Vincent Peale - J. C. Penney - John Pershing - James Polk - Paul Revere - Herbert Reynolds - Roy Rogers - Will Rogers - Franklin D. Roosevelt - Theodore Roosevelt - Thomas S. Roy - L. R. Scarborough - Jean Sibelius - "Red" Skelton - John Phillip Sousa - William Howard Taft - Danny Thomas - Lowell Thomas - Strom Thurmond - George W. Truett - Harry S. Truman - Joseph Warren - John Wanamaker - George Washington - John Wayne

[url="http://www.scottishrite.org/web/SRpublications/facts.htm"]Scottish Rite Website[/url]